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Old 06-02-2009, 07:15 PM   #31
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Pump Control test Franklin


new pump readings on a bench before installing are Y to BLACK = 4 ohms
Y to R = 11 ohms
Old pump in the well Y - B == 500 ohms Y to R = 11 ohms.
Pulled the pump and could not believe the condition of 1 section of the twisted 10-3g wire, the black was worn away and a 1" gap between the copper wire, yellow was scraped to within 1/16" copper left and green was about 50% gone.
Micromind -your good your realy good you called it in a earlier reply. again thank you for your expertise. The well is up and running.


Last edited by plumcass; 06-02-2009 at 07:18 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #32
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Pump Control test Franklin


My vital signs are good. All reading checked out. It still does not build up pressure but it runs at 30 PSI with 5 bubblers flowing fine but it used to build up pressure to 120 on all valves closed but now not over 60PSI. I think I either have a broken pipe of somehow does not suck enough.
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:28 PM   #33
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If the pump current and voltage are OK, and there are no obvious leaks, the best thing to do is pull the pump.

It's not easy to do without the proper equipment, but really not all that spendy to have a welldriller come out.

Plus, just about any welldriller can tell if a pump is good or not.

Rob
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:57 PM   #34
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ya Rob I am thinking about it. I have pulled it up once but that time I could hear the water running down the well. I got lucky that time because the break was on top. And I repaired it and placed strainers around the pipe to hold the pipe to the side of the well and that really made to too hard to pull it up this time but i guess i have no oyher choice.
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:32 PM   #35
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Pump Control test Franklin


I have a federal electric control box (capacitor start) on a submersible pump about 300-feet down. Its acting as if the well is very low but I find it hard to believe this time of year. If it has to pump the pressure tank up 2-3 times in a short period it will trip out on low pressure. Is it possible that the capacitor or relay in the control box ois getting weak and cannot handle a number of starts in such a short period?

Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:46 AM   #36
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Pump Control test Franklin


The only way to know for sure if the motor is operating properly is to take current readings on all 3 lines going to the well. It helps a lot to know the HP and type of controller (capacitor start, capacitor start-capacitor run, etc).

If the water level in the well is too low, you'll have air in the water lines.

Usually, if there's a problem with the start capacitor, the motor won't start at all, and won't pump any water. The overloads will trip within 30 seconds.

If the start relay fails to disengage, the motor will run at reduced speed and pump at reduced flow, and the overloads will trip in less than a minute.

If the run capacitor is bad (if it has one), it'll behave a lot like a bad start relay.

All of these problems will show up as excessive current.

A lot of reduced capacity problems I've seen are caused by mineral build-up on the impellers or the intake screen, or a leak.

If the system will hold pressure when the pump is off, and the current readings are normal when it's running, then the pump itself is suspect.

Rob
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:11 AM   #37
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I removed the cap from the well and listened to the pump. Most of the time (not all the time) when running I can hear a mecahnical chatter almost like a valve clattering. I can also hear faint gurgleing after pump cuts out. We have company now but I will run it later while listening until I recreate our problem of lost pressure.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:27 PM   #38
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Pump Control test Franklin


With pump running I'm reading 240V on both start and run circuits. Shouldn't the start circuit drop out? Or is the capacitor giving me the voltage?

Starter is only capactor to start.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #39
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Voltage will backfeed through the start winding in the motor, but not current. On most starters you can hear a little click when the start relay drops out. This usually occurs within a second or so.

Without measuring current, there's no way to know for sure if the start winding has been de-energized.

Rob
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:45 PM   #40
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I was just told by the local pump shop that if, with the well cap removed, I can hear the pump running that the well is low on water.


Could this be caused by construction in the area?
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #41
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Usually you can't hear the pump running in the well. If it's low on water, it'll make some noise, but you'll also have air in the water.

As a pump ages, the impellers get out of balance. This can be due to wear, or mineral build-up. An unbalanced pump will make noise even if there's plenty of water. Usually you can feel the vibration on the discharge pipe.

New wells certainly can lower the water table, causing older wells to go dry. It depends on the condition of the strata that the water is located in. Around here, the county drilled several wells, big pumps, and a bunch of existing wells went dry. The county paid for these wells to be deepened. At least that was the court order!

Rob
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Old 10-17-2009, 05:20 PM   #42
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Hello I have a 1/2 hp well pump and I have a pentek controller that says on the capacitor smc-ir0721-01 3/4 hp .56kw 230v6.9amp My question is will this controller run the 1/2 hp pump with out burning out anything as it shows on the schematic inside the box 1/2 - 1 hp? can any one help please
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
The only way to know for sure if the motor is operating properly is to take current readings on all 3 lines going to the well. It helps a lot to know the HP and type of controller (capacitor start, capacitor start-capacitor run, etc).

If the water level in the well is too low, you'll have air in the water lines.

Usually, if there's a problem with the start capacitor, the motor won't start at all, and won't pump any water. The overloads will trip within 30 seconds.

If the start relay fails to disengage, the motor will run at reduced speed and pump at reduced flow, and the overloads will trip in less than a minute.

If the run capacitor is bad (if it has one), it'll behave a lot like a bad start relay.

All of these problems will show up as excessive current.

A lot of reduced capacity problems I've seen are caused by mineral build-up on the impellers or the intake screen, or a leak.

If the system will hold pressure when the pump is off, and the current readings are normal when it's running, then the pump itself is suspect.

Rob
Franklin 3 hp single phase. Last night went to take a shower and nothing water drained tank and pump had tripped the main overload. After further investigating and replacing the relay i have found that i am getting 70 amps on the red to motor. Checked the black and yellow and they both seem to be abnormally high also. After about 3-5 sec. the main trips. I am curious if the start cap. could be causing this. I dont get any water pumping just here the contactors connect and what sounds like loud humming from the control box before main trips again. Also replaced pressure switch. 280ft. well
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:18 PM   #44
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The current on a 3 HP single phase pump motor should be around 16 on yellow, 12 on black, and 6 on red.

If the start relay failed to open, the currents would be very high on all 3 wires, and the motor will not come up to full speed. Red is the start winding, it should have a lot of current for a second or so at startup, then go down to about 6 or so.

There are 3 terminals on the start relay. One of them goes to the start capacitor. This wire will have current in it only during starting. If there's current in this wire after the motor has ran for more than a second or so, the relay is bad.

Check the current on the ground that goes to the well, if there is one. It should be very close to zero.

Rob
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:30 PM   #45
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Pump Control test Franklin


This thread is amazing... I learned so much from it. I am hoping that the experts here will be able to help me with my well pump situation.

I have a franklin control box (2823008110) attached to a 1 1/2 HP well pump. The pump sits 80 feet down and runs my sprinklers. It was working fine up until 3 weeks ago. Now it is not pumping water out of the ground. The pump is 3 years old.

Here are the things I have tried and the results. This pump is a 3 wire seutp. It is a capacitor start (105-126 MFD, 220v), capacitor run setup (10 MFD, 370V). This control box has 2 Caps and an overload switch. The L1/L2 is controlled by a pressure switch. The relay has three wires connected to it (red, yellow and orange going to the start cap).

At this time I have bypassed the pressure switch so it is always closed. Applying power at the breaker box gives 10.6 amps on one leg and 10.4 amps on the other. I have verified that L1 and L2 have voltage on them. When turning on the pump, the overload switch does not pop, and the amperage on the lines to the pump are listed below.

The red/yellow/black to ground ohm measurements are infinity. Resistances are: R-Y 9.2 ohms, Y-B 2.4 ohms, B-R 11.2 ohms. During steady state the amperage draw is Y-11.4a, B-10.7a, R-0.90a

Everything I have done seems to indicate the pump is good. However, there is no water. I even removed the well head and when my wife turns on the power, I can hear the pump humm and I hear the beginnings of the water flowing, but only for a fraction of a second.

I have measured the amperage on the wire from the relay to the start capacitor, and it spikes up to a around 2A, then it drops to 0.1ish amps.

There are only a few things that I have that are weird.

1) I have not measured the capacitance of the caps. I dont have a cap meter. Any ideas on where I can take them for a free test?

2) When turning on the power and having an amp meter on the red line to the pump, it only spikes up to 2amps for a fraction of a second before settling down to its 0.90 amps. My DVM seems to display 3 times a second, and if I am lucky I will see the very first reading at 2A, then it goes down and by the fourth reading it is 0.90A.

3) in the "checking procedure" printed inside the control box, for the relay coil, it says to disconnect the lead for the yellow wire and then run measure the ohms between the red lead and the yellow lead. This measurement is supposed to be 4500-7000 ohms. in my box the measurement from red to yellow on the relay is a short.

It has been a long time since my electronic courses, but I believe the "start" circuit is simply a decay timer (I do not believe the box is smart enough to "sense" when the RPM of the motor is 50-80%). There is a certain amount of time that current will flow through the capacitor before it becomes an "open" in the circuit which will turn the start winding off. Is that a correct statement?

My guess right now is that the "start" winding is not energizing long enough to get things going. Is that a possibility?

Another guess is that the rotor is jammed in the pump. What are the signs of that?

Thanks for any insight you have.

Eric


Last edited by genericuser; 04-10-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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