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wkosbob 05-26-2008 09:20 AM

Pump Control test Franklin
 
Trying to test a Franklin contol for a 1/2 hp 230 volts submersible pump control box. Does anyone have the instructions. I am getting ohm readings that seem wrong. model 2801054915. No water and cannot belive the pump has failed so fast. My last pump lasted 25 yrs. Pump is getting power. but not running.

Bill

jrclen 05-26-2008 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkosbob (Post 125836)
Trying to test a Franklin contol for a 1/2 hp 230 volts submersible pump control box. Does anyone have the instructions. I am getting ohm readings that seem wrong. model 2801054915. No water and cannot belive the pump has failed so fast. My last pump lasted 25 yrs. Pump is getting power. but not running.

Bill

Check for voltage across the wires which go to the pump from the contactor. If you show 240 volts or so, either the conductors or the pump have failed. Testing for DC resistance with your ohm meter will only confirm you have continuity through the motor winding and the wires going to the pump.

J. V. 05-26-2008 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrclen (Post 125847)
Check for voltage across the wires which go to the pump from the contactor. If you show 240 volts or so, either the conductors or the pump have failed. Testing for DC resistance with your ohm meter will only confirm you have continuity through the motor winding and the wires going to the pump.



I am not familiar with this control. Does it have a contactor controlled by a pressure switch? If so, does the contactor energize (pull in)? If not check the pressure switch.
Disconnect the motor and make sure all the controls work properly. If the controls work right it is either the motor, cable or overload setting.
Also, check the contactor. Make sure the contacts are clean and making good contact with each other. If you get this thing working, check the current on each motor leg. These readings should be very close.

micromind 05-26-2008 02:26 PM

This is a 3 wire submersible pump motor, the resistance between any two of the 3 wires should be different . The reason being that one of the wires is a common, one is the run winding, and the other is the start winding. If you have resistance between any two wires below 200 ohms, and infinite resistance from any wire to ground, your motor is likely OK.

There are several types of control boxes, yours is likely a capacitor start-induction run. It has one capacitor (usually a round thing, about 1"-2" diameter, 2"-4" long), a potential relay (usually a square thing about 1"X1" or so), and an overload relay (another round thing, with a button sticking outside of the box) in it. If it has two capacitors, then it is capacitor start-capacitor run.

Here's how it works; when voltage is applied, the run winding is energized, and stays energized until voltage is removed. The start winding is also energized, but the capacitor is wired in series with it. When the potential relay senses the motor speed to be about 1/2-2/3 of running speed, it opens (turns off) a contact, and de-energizes the start winding. In a capacitor run type, this relay simply removes the start (larger) capacitor from the circuit, and the start winding remains energized through the run (smaller) capacitor.

Now, for some actually useful info. First, since this is a fairly new installation, make sure the control box matches the motor. They're not interchangeable. HP and voltage must match. If it doesn't, the potential relay will not de-energize the start winding, and it'll burn up.

If it's the right box, make sure it's wired correctly. Black, red, and yellow must go to the proper terminals. I know this sounds incredibly stupid, but push the overload button. If it has tripped, we need to figure out why. With the box de-energized, measure resistance across the 2 terminals on the overload. It should be very low, less than 1 ohm. The next likely problem will be the capacitor. It'll have a mFD rating (as a wild guess, I'd say yours will be around 60mFD or so), and a voltage rating. If your meter has a capacitor test function, first short the 2 terminals out with a piece of wire or a screwdriver (they can store a charge for a long time!), then remove at least one lead. They cannot be tested while in the circuit. If it needs replaced, the mFD rating must match, the voltage rating can be higher, but not lower.

About the only other thing is the potential relay, it's a bit more involved to test, and we need to know if it's 2, 3, or 4 terminal. If the above checks out, write back and one of us will guide you through it.

Rob

wkosbob 05-26-2008 07:50 PM

readings
 
The control box is a franklin .37kw 230volts
5 amp 1/2 hp made 12/05
60 hz

One large Capacitor no second capacitor. one blue relay switch.

3 wire R, Y B IN BOX FROM PUMP

R TO Y UNDER 200 OHS
R TO B UNDER WAY UNDER 0 DIAL MOVES FAR RIGHT
Y TO B UNDER 200 OHMS

WELL WIRE TO GROUND. ALL 3 WIRES READ SAME 30 OHMS


ANY THOUGHTS

micromind 05-26-2008 11:39 PM

Something doesn't make sense here, yellow is the common, black is the run winding, and red is the start winding. The resistance from yellow to black should be very low, usually only a few ohms. The resistance from yellow to red should be higher, and if you add these two, it should equal the resistance from black to red. If these measurements were taken with the wires connected to the control box, disconnect them and measure resistance across the wires going to the well.

The 30 ohms to ground worries me alot. It should be infinite. Can you take the wellhead cap off and un-splice the pump at the top? Then you can determine whether the ground fault is in the pump motor (or the wires going down to it), or the wires from the control box to the wellhead.

The 0 ohms from red to black indicates that these two wires are shorted somewhere, unless they were still connected to the control box when measured. This should be the highest resistance of any two wires. Unfortunately, faults like this usually occur because the splices at the motor, which are under water, were not made completely waterproof. Over time, because water conducts (sort of), they'll heat up and may have melted together. You might get lucky though, if the cable from the control box to the well is direct-buried (or in a conduit full of water), and it was knicked during installation, it'll likely be easier to fix. Once you get the splice apart at the wellhead, you'll know which way to go.

Rob

wkosbob 05-27-2008 08:25 AM

well risence
 
Rob

Disconnected the pump wires at the well head and took the following readings for red, yellow and black to ground.

Red, black 15 ohms

yellow 4 ohms


When touching Red to black at the well head from the pump the reading goes to zero.

wkosbob 05-27-2008 08:27 AM

wire short
 
Looks like it could be a short at the pump or a bad pump.

jrclen 05-27-2008 09:11 AM

Thanks for all the info Rob, very informative posts. :thumbsup:

wkosbob 05-27-2008 09:16 AM

Pump
 
I guess it is time to deal with the installer, a pump should not goe after 2 years, this should be fun YUCK. Anybody know the warranty info on Franklin pumps?

J. V. 05-27-2008 12:34 PM

Micromind, Sorry, I had 3 phase on the brain. I have to remember we are working with mostly single phase on this forum.

wkosbob 05-27-2008 01:32 PM

Rob
 
You were correct and very helpfulful thank you.

The yellow wire was bad near the pump. When fixed all was well.

I really appreciate your input you were spot on.

Dealer wanted to sell me a new pump but the 2yr old pump was just fine.

Next time I have no need for the service guy.

Bill

micromind 05-27-2008 07:00 PM

I absolutely LOVE IT when we're (any of us) able to solve a problem here. That's the whole purpose of the forum!

I'm glad you've got water again, it's terrible to be without. Sort of makes us appreciate stuff we take for granted.

Rob

wkosbob 05-28-2008 08:31 AM

thank you
 
You truely put me on the right track. I was amazed how the wire had sucu a strange nick in it so deep in the well. It was like someone cut a piece out with an exacto knife. The other good part is I insisted we test the 2 yr old pump and it was fine. The service guy said they wanted to replace the pump and I said no. Saving over $700.00. As it turned out he was a cool guy and we worked togother to find the break and reset the pump. Again thanks for all your help. I know now I can do this job blind if needed.

Bill

jrclen 05-28-2008 10:24 AM

I think it's great too when this forum works for someone. And we can all pick up more information too. I never saw a control and pump set up this way. Usually the well guys do the connections from the disconnect I provide them. The only ones I've ever worked on afterward, have a simple 2 wire relay operated by pressure. And 2 wires running down to the pump. So I got some valuable information for the future from Rob too. Thanks.


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