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Old 10-05-2008, 01:51 PM   #1
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Pulling fiber


We are getting fiber to the curb and I have been thinking of pulling fiber in the house to take advantage of the speed.

When I did my remodel I put in conduit for all my low voltage wiring (Cat 6,cable and speaker) and left in a chaser string to pull anything else I might need later.

Has anyone done this or have any knowledge of fiber?

I find that my Cat6 is affected by house wiring even though I went to great pains to keep it 12 inches away from 120 and 2 feet from 240. I think I should have gone to a different plan and ran it in the attic with drops to the rooms.

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Old 10-05-2008, 02:16 PM   #2
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I have done plenty of work with Fiber, however I will not terminate fiber connectors, too much work and its just not worth it (pre-made cable is much cheaper). I will say that you will more than likely NOT be able to tie into the fiber from the street. The fiber run from the street usually terminates in a box on the outside of your house (the Demarcation point) and splits off to your services provided by the fiber run (voice, internet, cable tv, etc).

How do you know your electrical system is affecting the network cable? You should be fine with what you described as your distances from ac cable and that you ran it in conduit. Did you ground the conduit to a reliable ground?

I have cat5e running over romex in the attic to the garage and other rooms upstairs and to my knowledge have had no issues. Network cable in my room is all run through conduit, along with a RG6 coax and a Cat3 4 pair telephone wire. Its a rather tight fit for 8 runs of cat5e, 1 RG6 and the Cat3 inside a 3/4" conduit. When I was remodeling my room the 3/4" conduit was easy enough to bend and run in the ceiling at the time, I should have done like 1" or 2 runs of 3/4" instead. I only have benders for 1/2" and 3/4", luckily there was plenty of space in the dropped ceiling space to make a proper bend on the 3/4" (dropped ceiling space is for the duct work, the I beam and the copper gas line).

In my new house, I plan on running a couple runs of cat5e and cat6 to all rooms, plus a run or two of fiber for my gigabit fiber backbone I am already running. I currently have an IP PBX setup with IP phones tied right into my telco PSTN line, works great and I plan on fully implementing it in my new house.

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Old 10-05-2008, 03:00 PM   #3
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Pulling fiber


I have been told, unofficially, that the telco is going after a larger share of the media market and will be offering fiber to the house in the future. Also the local cable company is installing fiber to the pole and will offer it to the home in the future.

I have 1 1/2" conduit and it is PVC. Can't ground that.

Running at gigabit frequencies is more likely to have interference than megabit frequencies. I have run some tests on a line that is long and goes near some house wiring. I turn off the circuit and the throughput is higher with less dropped packets. When I turn on that circuit the throughput drops and I have higher dropped packets. I can only attribute that to the 120 wiring. It is about 12 inches away running parallel with it in the wall. Cat5e cn barely handle gigabit frequencies and drops lots of packets. My Cat6 is much better at maintaing through put at higher frequencies.

I should have spend the extra money and got shielded Cat6. From what I understand all Cat7 is shielded due the higher frequencies.

Fiber can be wrapped around house wiring and not have any interference. I have this dream where theoretical throughput and actual throughput are within 10% of each other all the time....sigh....

So far I have all gigabit computers and switches. My router is 10/100 and since my internet connection is wireless through a 24 dbi parabolic antenna from a node 2 blocks away I really don't need a gigabit router. My fast network is mainly for moving large files to my other computers for backup.

I suppose that waiting will allow me to get fiber even cheaper as it becomes main stream. I just want that kind of speed NOW!!! I am not getting any younger and more impatient for business to catch up with some of the technology that has been out there for a decade or so.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:01 PM   #4
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Pulling fiber


I don't see any reason you could not run your LAN with fiber. I have not seen the problems you describe but if you are having problems, go for it.

It matters not if you have fiber to the house or not, you can still run fiber for your LAN. That is where you appear to be having your problems anyway.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:08 PM   #5
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It is my understanding that the fiber will not run IN to the house, it will run up TO the house. So good luck getting that fiber all the way from the street and into your network.

The conduit I ran for my networking needs was 3/4" of the metal variety, so therefore I can ground it and it essentially shields the data wires inside the conduit.

Your testing of the interference seems adequate, though don't count on max transfer speed = actual transfer speed. I have couple computers including servers in my house on gigabit fiber as the sole connection to the network and transfer speeds between these machines are never at full capacity. My network consists of all cisco and 3 com professional grade network equipment, even the router is cisco.

What nap said about running fiber on your network, yes there would be nothing stopping you from running fiber with in your network. The fiber cable, interfaces, and media converters can be found on ebay for a decent price. I have 2 100meter spools of SC fiber that were purchased for under 50 bucks each on ebay. Ive used them at lan parties where sometimes a internet connection is a great distance away and running near fluorescent lighting.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:14 PM   #6
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I would like to replace all my Cat6, cable and audio with fiber. Think of all the room I would have in my 1.5" conduit...8-}

I guess I will start heading that way.

Some of my problems with the LAN/WAN connection are from the LAN especially when I am in the shop which is a 400 feet run of CAT6. I get more dropped packets out there. I have 3 runs of CAT6 and tried each one with no change in performance.

The other of course is the wirelss connection from 2 blocks away.

My 4 mile wireless connection in my vacation home has better throughput than here.

Last edited by Marvin Gardens; 10-05-2008 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:53 PM   #7
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Pulling fiber


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post
I find that my Cat6 is affected by house wiring even though I went to great pains to keep it 12 inches away from 120 and 2 feet from 240. I think I should have gone to a different plan and ran it in the attic with drops to the rooms.
Really? Wow! you should see some datacentre cabling then. Generally we are not concerned about proximity to AC power. In fact we run AC and data from the ceiling down to desks via the same pole.

gb over copper really isn't 1gb speed. It's more like 600mb and it will drop down to 100mb if you start seeing error.

gb over fiber is gb speeds.

Out of curiosity what network devices do you have(make/model/part #'s)?

Are the computers windows boxes? Broadcom drivers have given us head aches in the past. We had to keep updating them until found a stable version.

Did you run plastic or metal conduit?
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by unixb0y View Post
Really? Wow! you should see some datacentre cabling then. Generally we are not concerned about proximity to AC power. In fact we run AC and data from the ceiling down to desks via the same pole.

gb over copper really isn't 1gb speed. It's more like 600mb and it will drop down to 100mb if you start seeing error.

gb over fiber is gb speeds.

Out of curiosity what network devices do you have(make/model/part #'s)?

Are the computers windows boxes? Broadcom drivers have given us head aches in the past. We had to keep updating them until found a stable version.

Did you run plastic or metal conduit?
I am running a Cisco 24 port gigabit switch. My router is a WAP54G connected to another WAP 2 blocks away through matching 24dbi parabolic directional antenna's.

I am a totally Mac household with a home automation server/music server/backup RAID 10, a desktop machine RAID 0, several wireless laptops and an NAS.

If you are running Cat5 or 5e it is not as sensitive to interference. Cat 5 is not rated for gigabit and Cat5e will do it but not real well. Cat 6 actually runs the data on the outside of the cable versus outside the wire like magabit and inside the wire like 10bt.

Maybe the reason you are not getting good throughput is because you are running it next to the powerlines.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:09 PM   #9
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Pulling fiber


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post
Some of my problems with the LAN/WAN connection are from the LAN especially when I am in the shop which is a 400 feet run of CAT6. I get more dropped packets out there. I have 3 runs of CAT6 and tried each one with no change in performance.
400 feet? Do you have a repeater on this connection? Max cable run should be less than 100 meters (approx 333 feet). Usually runs of wire within the wall should be limited to 90 meters to allow for cabling in the data closet to the switch, and at the workstation to the wall jack.

I have seen in one instance a total cable length of around 370 feet including the cable to the switch and the workstation, and it has worked just fine, however this is with Cat 5 (don't even think its "e" rated) and on a 10/100 connection. Once your cable gets over 100 meters in length you start to have issues with transmission of data packets which tends to result in a lot of dropped packets. I would not expect any cable run over 300 feet to perform flawlessly under any condition.

At 400 feet I'd be looking at running fiber to this computer, you might consider putting a switch on the end to connect multiple computers over the same fiber connection.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:30 PM   #10
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Pulling fiber


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Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
400 feet? Do you have a repeater on this connection? Max cable run should be less than 100 meters (approx 333 feet). Usually runs of wire within the wall should be limited to 90 meters to allow for cabling in the data closet to the switch, and at the workstation to the wall jack.

I have seen in one instance a total cable length of around 370 feet including the cable to the switch and the workstation, and it has worked just fine, however this is with Cat 5 (don't even think its "e" rated) and on a 10/100 connection. Once your cable gets over 100 meters in length you start to have issues with transmission of data packets which tends to result in a lot of dropped packets. I would not expect any cable run over 300 feet to perform flawlessly under any condition.

At 400 feet I'd be looking at running fiber to this computer, you might consider putting a switch on the end to connect multiple computers over the same fiber connection.
Yea, I knew I was pushing it but I have always found out that if they say X is the limit it is the limit of a set of failure points that they recommend that you don't go beyond. I actually took one end of a 1000 foot roll and the other end and put connectors on it just for kicks to see what it would do and it worked. Not real well but it did work.

My only other option was to do a wireless and I just didn't have the parts.

This was a left over roll and I just put it in to see if it would work and it did at least good enough for me.
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:42 PM   #11
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Pulling fiber


Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
400 feet? Do you have a repeater on this connection? Max cable run should be less than 100 meters (approx 333 feet). Usually runs of wire within the wall should be limited to 90 meters to allow for cabling in the data closet to the switch, and at the workstation to the wall jack.

.
exactly what I was thinking. copper runs are limited to 100 meters for a reason.

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