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-   -   pulling a 12/2 run from 12/3, how to? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/pulling-12-2-run-12-3-how-121044/)

SocalPaddy 10-23-2011 04:22 PM

pulling a 12/2 run from 12/3, how to?
 
Hi Folks,

New here, please go easy :)

In my new to me house I found that I had a 12/3 run from breaker box go to a 3-way switch in our kitchen. That's grand, except we dont want the 3-way switch anymore.

I pulled the 12/3 back into the attic but would like to pull a 12/2 run from it at this point using a junction box. I know I splice ground to ground, white to white black to black but what do I do with the leftover red? Do I just cut it back as far as can into the romex sleeve or do i put a wire nut on it, or should i be running 12/2 back to the box? :eek:

Thanks in advance for any and all help

Jim Port 10-23-2011 04:52 PM

First you would need to determine how the 3way was wired to see if any changes could be made to the wiring.

You also could have left the cable in place and abandoned the red in the box.

SocalPaddy 10-23-2011 04:57 PM

Thanks Jim,

I'd like to 'abandon' the red in the junction box, it's how to do this correctly/safely is my issue. Do I need to wire nut it and leave it in the box or cut it back to the romex and leave it there?

gregzoll 10-23-2011 05:33 PM

My first question is, why do you feel that you no longer want the 3-way switch there. It was placed there for a reason. The other question is, where in what room is this 3-way switch at, and for what light. If in a dining room or kitchen, the only way to change it out, is go where the power feeds, and start from there.

scyarch 10-23-2011 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 755056)
My first question is, why do you feel that you no longer want the 3-way switch there. It was placed there for a reason. The other question is, where in what room is this 3-way switch at, and for what light. If in a dining room or kitchen, the only way to change it out, is go where the power feeds, and start from there.

I agree. Though there isn't always a need for a 3 way, there's typically a logical reason it was placed there as Gregzoll said. I know we have a small dining room at one of our apartments which really had no need for a 3-way, however it has it, none-the-less.

My question or two is in addition to Gregzoll's: What do you plan to do with the other switch... re-route it to a new light, block it off? Also, which 3-way scheme is this room wired with? I've typically only seen 3-ways when run through flex although I know it's possible with nm as well. The issue is I generally only ever see one hot line coming into the room from the box, along with a neutral which then sends the neutral up to the light, the power follows with it, along with a coaster wire and the wire to turn the light on. Through the light fixture, the neutral and light (usually a yellow wire) connect to the fixture, the white usually carries onto a new room and the coaster and power wires with a new light wire head to the opposite switch.

I've seen (I think) one instance where both the wires that bypass the light and connect the switches were both hot... but I fail to see why you can't (if this is the case) just cut and cap off the one wire from a breaker or remove the coaster wire and the second string that leads to the second switch. Running a new wire, as opposed to capping a dead wire seems to be a bit pricey and a lot of extra work for something that you remove from all sources of power, cap off, label and just swap out a new switch (all when it's hidden away in the walls mind you.. unless you have glass walls and want cleaner looking cables...?).

SocalPaddy 10-23-2011 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 755056)
My first question is, why do you feel that you no longer want the 3-way switch there. It was placed there for a reason. The other question is, where in what room is this 3-way switch at, and for what light. If in a dining room or kitchen, the only way to change it out, is go where the power feeds, and start from there.

Well it was a 3-way switch but apparently only ever controlled one light by itself there were no other switches controlling that light. The switch was in the old kitchen, which has been opened up into a much larger room for for a new kitchen/family room.

I'd like to pull a 12/2 circuit from this old 12/3 to run the lights in the new room. I'll pull separate 12/2 's from the breaker box for the outlets etc.. I'm trying to understand what is the correct way to abandon the red from the old 12/3 in the junction box.

Thanks and hope I'm making sense :)

Speedy Petey 10-23-2011 06:28 PM

Just cap it off. DO NOT cut it short.
You never know when you'll need it. Since it is a 3-wire home run it can serve two 20A circuits.

gregzoll 10-23-2011 06:36 PM

socalpaddy, my wife wanted a 3-way for the dining room light, so that if you came in the back door, you could flip on the dining light, and turn it off or on as you came from the bedrooms. When lights are laid out by the electrician, sometimes it does not have a rhyme or reason, but other times there is a reason why.

Also in the case with our Kitchen, when we rewired, I ran 14/3 from the junction box for the kitchen & dining, so that I could power the light over the sink, then use a switch leg to turn it off and on. There is always a reason why 14/3 or 12/3 is ran, so thinking again that you may not need it now, you never know what the future will hold.

SocalPaddy 10-23-2011 06:46 PM

Yip I'd like to keep it in the attic just in case I ever need it in the future. At this moment I need a 12/2 so from what you guys have said (if I understand) i can join the 12/2 to the 12/3 and just cap off the red in the junction box?

How do I deal with the other end of the red in the breaker box?

Snav 10-23-2011 06:51 PM

Leave the breaker box alone - no need to tinker there at all unless you just intend on taking it all out and never using it again.

gregzoll 10-23-2011 07:07 PM

SoCalPaddy, you can not just leave romex or any wiring just sitting in the attic, while it is either live, or attached downstream in a circuit. Really need more info in what you are exactly trying to do.

SocalPaddy 10-23-2011 07:27 PM

Obviously something getting lost in translation here. My ultimate aim is a 12/2 run for an outlet I need in the attic.

*I have a run of 12/3 from the breaker box which WAS wired to a now defunct 3-way switch in our kitchen.This 12/3 is currently is currently attached at the breaker box. The other end is now in a junction box in my attic and the ends are capped and the breaker is off.

*The 12/2 I need is near that location.

*I understand from this thread that i can pull a 12/2 by taking it from the 12/3 at this junction box in my attic.

*The remaining wire (red) may be capped in this junction box for possible future use.

*The other end of the red at the breaker box may be left alone

gregzoll 10-23-2011 07:33 PM

Yes, you can either run a mwbc and have two outlets, one where the previous switch was, and one up in the attic. Only thing is, up in the attic, you should place a gfci, but also on the circuit, it should be afci protected. It is your choice to either use the black & white or red &white.

jimmy21 10-23-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocalPaddy
Obviously something getting lost in translation here. My ultimate aim is a 12/2 run for an outlet I need in the attic.

Your question seemed pretty clear from the start. Some people on this forum like to just ignore your questions and go off on tangents and other topics
Quote:

Originally Posted by SocalPaddy
*I have a run of 12/3 from the breaker box which WAS wired to a now defunct 3-way switch in our kitchen.This 12/3 is currently is currently attached at the breaker box. The other end is now in a junction box in my attic and the ends are capped and the breaker is off.

*The 12/2 I need is near that location.

*I understand from this thread that i can pull a 12/2 by taking it from the 12/3 at this junction box in my attic.

*The remaining wire (red) may be capped in this junction box for possible future use.

*The other end of the red at the breaker box may be left alone

Correct, except i would cap the wire in the panel as well just to be safe. Absolutely do not cut the wire off. This is a common home owner mistake. Do not cut a wire off unless you are going to cut the entire cable out

gregzoll 10-23-2011 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy21 (Post 755140)
Your question seemed pretty clear from the start. Some people on this forum like to just ignore your questions and go off on tangents and other topics

What in the world are you talking about. Getting clarity from the person that starts the thread, instead of having to play guessing games, makes stuff easier to solve, and plus makes the thread no longer than three maybe four posts.


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