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Old 12-08-2009, 01:04 PM   #1
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


House built 1954. 115 is two wire and 230v is three. I have added a few new 115 circuits with a ground and added a ground to some existing 115 circuits.

I am removing s 230v stove and want a 115 socket there. I plan to take one 230 hot side and the 230 common for the new 115 socket. Then run a separate ground line to the plumbing under the kitchen sink. I might hook each hot to each receptacle on the new 115 socket, and break the tab. Your thoughts?

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Old 12-08-2009, 01:07 PM   #2
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


What is your location? Grounding rules are very different in Canada from the USA.

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Old 12-08-2009, 01:11 PM   #3
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


What size breaker on the stove wire ?
That will need to be changed to a 20a Max
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:14 PM   #4
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


How many wires to the stove and what colors? Are they all insulated?
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:27 PM   #5
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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Originally Posted by paulmars View Post
H Then run a separate ground line to the plumbing under the kitchen sink.
This is NOT an option, nor is it always a safe or valid ground.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:19 PM   #6
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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This is NOT an option, nor is it always a safe or valid ground.
Agreed, went to a house where someone did this, they added grounds througout the house (older 2-wire system) using A cast iron ventstack, then some genious put a bathroom fan in off a switchleg using the added ground for their neutral, then a section of the main plumbing stack got fixed with some pvc. so anytime someone was in the bathtub & someone turned on that fan they would get a small shock. theyre lucky that fan never developed a dead short.

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Old 12-08-2009, 04:47 PM   #7
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


Why not pull the double pole breaker and replace with a 20A single pole. Attach one of the former hots to the breaker, the neutral to the neutral buss and wrap the second former hot with green tape and use it for the ground wire. A pro please confirm if this is OK
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:55 PM   #8
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


No you can't remark a hot wire as a ground
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:20 PM   #9
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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This is NOT an option, nor is it always a safe or valid ground.
Actually, in Canada it could be an option.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:21 PM   #10
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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I might hook each hot to each receptacle on the new 115 socket, and break the tab. Your thoughts?

Don't.

Use one insulated wire for the hot, tape the other one white for the neutral (and move it to the neutral bus) and use the bare as your ground.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:51 PM   #11
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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Actually, in Canada it could be an option.
Actually, under some very restrictive circumstances you still can in the US as well. This being connecting to a water pipe within 5' of where it enters the house and if it is being used as an electrode. In that case though it makes more sense to just connect to the GEC.

They dropped the "connect to any old pipe" allowance many years ago. journeymanj's story is a perfect example of why.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:06 PM   #12
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmars View Post
House built 1954. 115 is two wire and 230v is three. I have added a few new 115 circuits with a ground and added a ground to some existing 115 circuits.

I am removing s 230v stove and want a 115 socket there. I plan to take one 230 hot side and the 230 common for the new 115 socket. Then run a separate ground line to the plumbing under the kitchen sink. I might hook each hot to each receptacle on the new 115 socket, and break the tab. Your thoughts?
But you will still need a common trip (as opposed to a 2 pole breaker) on your breaker/s; According to the NEC the ground wire has to run back to the panel in the same set of wires as the Neutral and Hot/s: (No matter what) Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:12 PM   #13
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymanj View Post
Agreed, went to a house where someone did this, they added grounds througout the house (older 2-wire system) using A cast iron ventstack, then some genious put a bathroom fan in off a switchleg using the added ground for their neutral, then a section of the main plumbing stack got fixed with some pvc. so anytime someone was in the bathtub & someone turned on that fan they would get a small shock. theyre lucky that fan never developed a dead short.
That is one of the reasons (if not the main reason) that Grounding requirements (both for individual receptacles and service entrance) were fundamentally changed in NEC. (No matter what) Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:13 PM   #14
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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No you can't remark a hot wire as a ground
I believe that you can strip the entire exposed length, however.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:23 PM   #15
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pulling 115v from a 230v and adding a ground


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I believe that you can strip the entire exposed length, however.
That would be interesting...especially if its installed in the wall
Is bare stranded OK in conduit ?

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