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Old 02-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #31
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Electric water heater + more bodies taking showers, doing laundry, etc = higher electric bill.

Electric heaters, either plug-in type or strip heat in a heat pump air handler = higher electric bill.

Most of the other stuff you posted (except maybe the bottle warmer) is mainly irrelevant.

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Old 02-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #32
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Electric water heater + more bodies taking showers, doing laundry, etc = higher electric bill.

Electric heaters, either plug-in type or strip heat in a heat pump air handler = higher electric bill.

Most of the other stuff you posted (except maybe the bottle warmer) is mainly irrelevant.
Her parents arrived end of September so they were here for all of October yet that bill reflected a 140kWh increase. The weather was colder in October so the heat pump was switched from A/C to heat. As I understand it, the heat pump costs more in heat mode because of the potential for the strip heat to engage.

It isn't like all of a sudden in everyone was taking three showers a day to account for the 715kWh increase although the outside temp did drop 15 degrees.

For December we saw a 3 degree temperature drop outside yet the kWh increase from November is 1737.

That is not from the water heater or bottle warmer!

Just now I checked how fast that disc rotates around using the black line as a baseline. With lights and everything else plugged in with the exception of the two refrigerators, it took 54 seconds for the disc to rotate. The HVAC and water heater were also off.

With only the HVAC turned back on (and running) the disc rotates around in 2.3 seconds. Is that normal? Does it indicate the use of strip heaters?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #33
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


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Originally Posted by ZenicaNJ View Post
The original contractor said the heat strips only come on as needed based
on outside temps. He said the heat pump had a sensor for the outside air
temp and would turn the strip heat on/off. I have no way to know if that
sensor is just defaulting to on but if the bill is any indication...
This is why we've been trying to find OTHER ways to take the strips out of the equation.

I'm not an HVAC guy and I've never worked in NJ, but...
but I've never seen strip heaters connected in a way that when their "means of disconnect" (breaker or whatever else for servicing) was turned off that the entire appliance was turned off.

Whatever else is going on... sorting that out is now also on your to do list.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #34
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


I've been doing some reading...using the vent discharge air as a reference point.
What should the temperature be at the vest nearest the handler? My closest vent
is about 6 feet from the handler. I want to measure the air temp coming out to get
an idea if strip heat is coming on. If it isn't and that is not the source of where the
1700kWh's went, where else could it have gone? 1700kWh is more than I use for
two months, when looking back at 2011 and 2012 (excluding 12/2012!).
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:28 PM   #35
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Got a Kitchen probe thermometer that goes from 0 to 200?
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #36
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Got a Kitchen probe thermometer that goes from 0 to 200?
Your timing is impeccable! I do and after 3 times of the HVAC cycling
on and off, the thermometer was between 93 and 97 degrees. I read that without strip heat the heat pump should discharge air at a temperature about 20 degrees higher than room temperature. The rooms are 71 right now so this is in line with what I've read.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:25 PM   #37
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


A member over at Terrylove.com suggested something I would never have thought to check. To see if the outside unit was running when the inside air handler was and ya know what? It isn't. The metal tubing that enters the air handler is ambient temp cold and the outside unit was off yet the air handler was pumping heat at 93 degrees. It doesn't take a genius to know where that heat was coming from.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:29 PM   #38
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Post the model # & manufacturer of the outside unit, from the info on the label.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:31 PM   #39
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Thermostat set at "emergency" heat? That would triple the electric bill easily ....
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:45 PM   #40
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Post the model # & manufacturer of the outside unit, from the info on the label.
TRANE XR14
Model 4TWR4030C1000AA
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #41
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


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Thermostat set at "emergency" heat? That would triple the electric bill easily ....
The thermostat just read "HEAT", it did not say "AUX" as I see it can which tells me either the Trane can't send an aux signal for the Thermostat to receive and display or it is improperly connected.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:59 PM   #42
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Until this can be looked at by Trane, is it more economical to use two 250/500/750 watt space heaters for the two bedrooms vs the strip heat for the whole house?

These are oil space heaters that can radiate heat and shut down, turning on when needed. I usually use the 250 watt setting with the dial on 4 (max is 6) for the basement when I'm down there and working on something all day. Before any asks, these heaters were not pluued in and I haven't used them this year....or last
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:57 PM   #43
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenicaNJ View Post
The thermostat just read "HEAT", it did not say "AUX" as I see it can which tells me either the Trane can't send an aux signal for the Thermostat to receive and display or it is improperly connected.
That one issue with some thermosat that some of them do not program properly with heat pump avce electrique heat.

I know some of the trane models do have two stage on heat so it will run in .,

Heat pump mode alone: ( very dependent on outdoor tempture and with lower tempture if the outdoor unit iced up it will run in A/C mode and keep the blower off for short time until defrosted { see below for combo mode }

For the combo mode : It will run heat pump but have first stage of electrique heat kick in to boost the heat output in colder days however some of the thermosat if the room tempture do not rise X number of degress in X amout of time it will kick in full electrique heat mode to get it up to the level.

That part you can not just crank the thermosat dail pretty fast otherwise you will kick in both mode in pretty fast without noticed electrique heat kicked in.

For Electrique heat mode only : this part will be done either manually or automatique depending on the function of combo mode or have aux heat switch.

Manual mode ; It will lock out the outdoor unit complety and run full capaity of electrique heating system ( some will run in first stage and some will run both stage again depending on the thermosat itself )

Autmatique mode : It will run in either first stage if small rise on tempture but need large rise of tempture or pass the X amout of time it will kick in second stage.

That useally cover what most common items .,

However the other thing is low freon can do this funky situation by keep the unit running longer than it supposed to do it

Dirty return filter will do the same thing.

Miswired or mismatched thermoast ? that is a good possiblty either can happend.

The only way you can do this properly is have the indoor unit model number and one of us can able figure out if this have single stage or mulit stage unit and what else it have in there and the thermosat brand name as well.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:20 AM   #44
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
That one issue with some thermosat that some of them do not program properly with heat pump avce electrique heat.

I know some of the trane models do have two stage on heat so it will run in .,

Heat pump mode alone: ( very dependent on outdoor tempture and with lower tempture if the outdoor unit iced up it will run in A/C mode and keep the blower off for short time until defrosted { see below for combo mode }

For the combo mode : It will run heat pump but have first stage of electrique heat kick in to boost the heat output in colder days however some of the thermosat if the room tempture do not rise X number of degress in X amout of time it will kick in full electrique heat mode to get it up to the level.

That part you can not just crank the thermosat dail pretty fast otherwise you will kick in both mode in pretty fast without noticed electrique heat kicked in.

For Electrique heat mode only : this part will be done either manually or automatique depending on the function of combo mode or have aux heat switch.

Manual mode ; It will lock out the outdoor unit complety and run full capaity of electrique heating system ( some will run in first stage and some will run both stage again depending on the thermosat itself )

Autmatique mode : It will run in either first stage if small rise on tempture but need large rise of tempture or pass the X amout of time it will kick in second stage.

That useally cover what most common items .,

However the other thing is low freon can do this funky situation by keep the unit running longer than it supposed to do it

Dirty return filter will do the same thing.

Miswired or mismatched thermoast ? that is a good possiblty either can happend.

The only way you can do this properly is have the indoor unit model number and one of us can able figure out if this have single stage or mulit stage unit and what else it have in there and the thermosat brand name as well.

Merci,
Marc
The Trane air handler is model 4TEE3F31B1000AA.
The thermostat is White Rogers 1F97-1277 Touchscreen Thermostat.
(I'm 99% sure this is the model I have)
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:24 AM   #45
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PSE&G usage doubled the last two months


Here the issue what you have there.,

The thermosast is not compareable with your heat pump.,

I will post the link in a moment .,

Thermosat > what ya have now ., http://www.ntsupply.com/files/products/0037-6814.pdf

This is the correct verison as you want for your heat pump useage.

http://www.ntsupply.com/files/products/1f95-1277.pdf

However you do have variable indoor air handler however I could not get the infomation from my side for some reason and how many conductor you have there for the thermosat cable ? it should be more than 7 for this type of heat pump with dual stage compressour unit.

The last time I ran into like that it did came with 11 conductors so you may have some issue with the thermosat and connections maybe combation of both.

This part I feel more stongly recomened that you get ahold of your HVAC contractor to assit you on this one. make sure you get one that is Trane qualifed.

Merci,
Marc

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