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Old 03-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #16
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
I'm sorry, I can't take it. There are certain things a homeowner can do on his own when it comes to electrical work, but replacing a main panel is not one of them.

How did you cut power to the old panel? How are you going to get it hooked back up? Is the service rated for 200 Amps? Most of the time (around here in WI) you will need a permit for the power company to make permanent connections. Around here, the only people that can pull permits for electrical are master electricians with the backing of a licensed and insured electrical contractor.
K buz which part of Wisconsin ya in now ?

Merci,
Marc
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #17
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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The neutral conductor is providing the 'return' path back to the transformer. Bonding the neutral to the 'ground' at the main does a fews things. The grounds of the branch circuits and feeders that are fed by the main now have a path back to the transformer also. This will make overcurrent devices operate if there is a ground fault. Bonding the neutral conductor to the grounding electrodes via the grounding electrode conductor(s) will help stabilize the system voltage, and help protect the system from high voltage surges, like lightning.
Thanks for the clarification SD515.
I hope I don't sound stupid, (probably too late) but my thinking has been that electricity if given 2 courses (ground and neutral bonded) would of course, follow the path of least resistance which I would think would be to ground, not back to the transformer.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:31 PM   #18
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


Like I said earlier, there are some thing DIYers can do their selves, but I don't see this as one of those items. A complete service change and relocation is a pretty big job for an electrician (I am one), much less a homeowner.

There are a couple posts that you have made that scare me. It goes with the saying of knowing just enough to be dangerous. I'm really not trying to insult you, but there is a reason electricians have to be licensed and insured. We are insured to compensate customers for mistakes we make, but if you make a mistake, I don't think you will be as lucky with your insurance company.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:35 PM   #19
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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HOWEVER I am just trying to wrap my head around the fact that current is able to go back to the transformer, on the neutral bar, while being bonded to ground.
Well, It would be similar to wiring things in a vehicle with only one wire and no return, nothing would work. Another example, you could pound a ground rod into the earth and hook it up to the battery negative. Sorta the same. The neutral returns your 120 volt loads, not the 240's BTW.

The center tap of the transformer (neutral) is ALSO grounded (120 volt loads). The ground and neutral are one and the same at this point.

Last edited by zappa; 03-21-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:35 PM   #20
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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Like I said earlier, there are some thing DIYers can do their selves, but I don't see this as one of those items. A complete service change and relocation is a pretty big job for an electrician (I am one), much less a homeowner.

There are a couple posts that you have made that scare me. It goes with the saying of knowing just enough to be dangerous. I'm really not trying to insult you, but there is a reason electricians have to be licensed and insured. We are insured to compensate customers for mistakes we make, but if you make a mistake, I don't think you will be as lucky with your insurance company.
I will add his comment due some area he did mention it have to be done by electrician also the time window if you want to get ahold of inspector ( in some area all I will say Bon Chance { Good luck } ) due their shedule you have to timed it ahead of the time.

I have done alot of service changeover and they are not a easy fest if you are not aware with some of the code change along the way.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:40 PM   #21
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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K buz which part of Wisconsin ya in now ?

Merci,
Marc
The Milwaukee area.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:43 PM   #22
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The Milwaukee area.
I am further north of ya in Fox Valley area when I am in Wisconsin otherwise will be at Paris France.

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Old 03-21-2012, 10:51 PM   #23
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
Like I said earlier, there are some thing DIYers can do their selves, but I don't see this as one of those items. A complete service change and relocation is a pretty big job for an electrician (I am one), much less a homeowner.

There are a couple posts that you have made that scare me. It goes with the saying of knowing just enough to be dangerous. I'm really not trying to insult you, but there is a reason electricians have to be licensed and insured. We are insured to compensate customers for mistakes we make, but if you make a mistake, I don't think you will be as lucky with your insurance company.
I know plenty enough to be dangerous thank you very much, also enough to do it right the first time. I'm not sure what I said to "scare you", please explain. I'm just trying to get as much clarification on certain things as possible. As I have not done a complete upgrade myself before.
My current service is an antiquated square-d 60 amp 4 breaker main in my kitchen. I am installing a new 200a main service panel,(in my attached garage) new 2/0 SEC, a #4 ground to 5/8 rod ,and a cold water bond .1 new 20a outdoor circuit for my table saw, compressor ect, and will be tying my old wiring into the new service via J boxes in my attic (all approved by the HEAD Electrical inspector in my city) until I renovate the house 1 room at a time and run new wiring in each room as i go without being without power for any time at ALL.
All in all pretty simple. Actually got the hardest part done already(mounting the box to my own standards).
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #24
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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Well, It would be similar to wiring things in a vehicle with only one wire and no return, nothing would work. Another example, you could pound a ground rod into the earth and hook it up to the battery negative. Sorta the same. The neutral returns your 120 volt loads, not the 240's BTW.

The center tap of the transformer (neutral) is ALSO grounded (120 volt loads). The ground and neutral are one and the same at this point.
THANK YOU... that's what I was looking for
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:00 PM   #25
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


ALSO just wanted to throw this out there to all the neysayers out there-
Last time i checked, i was logged onto the DIYchatroom, where a DIY'er could get advice and seek knowledge and sometimes give it too. Thank You to all who can answer questions and chat professionally. Off to bed with my arse.....gotta work tomorrow.
Steve
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:07 PM   #26
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


1) Not knowing that neutrals will carry a load under normal circumstances.
2) While A ground rod is all code requires, be prepared to prove the resistance to earth or install a second ground rod.
3) As I live in a different part of the country and typical construction is vastly different, I am a little confused on your water ground. Simply jumpering the meter is not the only requirement around here.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:13 PM   #27
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1) Not knowing that neutrals will carry a load under normal circumstances.

All single et triphase with netural will carry a load however with triphase it will be little differnt than single phase are due the phase differnal.( I will explain more later )

2) While A ground rod is all code requires, be prepared to prove the resistance to earth or install a second ground rod.

It much cheaper to sink two ground rods than try to use the specailized ground rod tester to get 25 ohms or less.

3) As I live in a different part of the country and typical construction is vastly different, I am a little confused on your water ground. Simply jumpering the meter is not the only requirement around here.
For the city water if you have copper tubing that buried in the ground minuim of 10 feet that will be a ground purpose plus the ground rods.

Each area / states will varies a little with their local codes so as I always advise before .,, check with your local codes for latest info which they will change from time to time.


( all my answer is in bleu )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:15 PM   #28
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


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I will add his comment due some area he did mention it have to be done by electrician also the time window if you want to get ahold of inspector ( in some area all I will say Bon Chance { Good luck } ) due their shedule you have to timed it ahead of the time.
When I did a service changeover on my home from having a pole in the yard to a 200 amp service to the garage it was quite a time ahead to get the changeover and inspection scheduled and worked like hell to get it all done and passed with my crazy work schedule. Was lucky and only without power for less than an hour with temporary feeders to the old panel.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:20 PM   #29
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When I did a service changeover on my home from having a pole in the yard to a 200 amp service to the garage it was quite a time ahead to get the changeover and inspection scheduled and worked like hell to get it all done and passed with my crazy work schedule. Was lucky and only without power for less than an hour with temporary feeders to the old panel.
I have done worst than what you did the last time I have that crazy time window was in the moring but good thing I do know that inspector so he check it and pass it for me. ( the service changeover was caused by a let say ., a stupid forklift driver mash into the 480 volt panel )

Merci,
Marc

(Note: from start to done in 3 hours window and of course I have to call in reforcements to assit moi on this one )
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #30
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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel


We are allowed to cut the POCO's connections and reconnect them. Then the inspector will come out, then he will go back and inform the POCO that permanent connections are needed. Then the POCO will come out and make those connections when they feel like it. (Seriously, I have had customers wait over a year, and as much as 4 years for permanent connections)
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