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Properly wiring my new 200a meter/panel

6K views 41 replies 11 participants last post by  BeachBum2 
#1 · (Edited)
My new meter/main service panel has no ground bar only a neutral bar. I have been told that since it is the main (only) panel that this is fine. Does this mean that ALL ground and neutral wires to ALL circuits AND my ground rod should be connected to this neutral bar? Just doesn't seem right to me. I know that I can get/install a ground bar kit but it would be bonded to the neutral right? kinda seems redundant. I understand electricity but this is my first panel upgrade. any GOOD advice is appreciated.
 

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#12 ·
First off. I do understand the theory (ac power) and am certified in DC electrical (vehicles) and have a broad construction knowledge 20+ years. so running wiring , determining loads, proper connections ect. is actually pretty basic.
I am a homeowner that is upgrading my own service (as allowed) and DID pull proper permits and WILL pass inspection. HOWEVER I am just trying to wrap my head around the fact that current is able to go back to the transformer, on the neutral bar, while being bonded to ground. Understand?
 
#10 ·
I'm sorry, I can't take it. There are certain things a homeowner can do on his own when it comes to electrical work, but replacing a main panel is not one of them.

How did you cut power to the old panel? How are you going to get it hooked back up? Is the service rated for 200 Amps? Most of the time (around here in WI) you will need a permit for the power company to make permanent connections. Around here, the only people that can pull permits for electrical are master electricians with the backing of a licensed and insured electrical contractor.
 
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#14 ·
The neutral conductor is providing the 'return' path back to the transformer. Bonding the neutral to the 'ground' at the main does a fews things. The grounds of the branch circuits and feeders that are fed by the main now have a path back to the transformer also. This will make overcurrent devices operate if there is a ground fault. Bonding the neutral conductor to the grounding electrodes via the grounding electrode conductor(s) will help stabilize the system voltage, and help protect the system from high voltage surges, like lightning.
 
#17 ·
The neutral conductor is providing the 'return' path back to the transformer. Bonding the neutral to the 'ground' at the main does a fews things. The grounds of the branch circuits and feeders that are fed by the main now have a path back to the transformer also. This will make overcurrent devices operate if there is a ground fault. Bonding the neutral conductor to the grounding electrodes via the grounding electrode conductor(s) will help stabilize the system voltage, and help protect the system from high voltage surges, like lightning.
Thanks for the clarification SD515.
I hope I don't sound stupid, (probably too late) but my thinking has been that electricity if given 2 courses (ground and neutral bonded) would of course, follow the path of least resistance which I would think would be to ground, not back to the transformer.
 
#18 ·
Like I said earlier, there are some thing DIYers can do their selves, but I don't see this as one of those items. A complete service change and relocation is a pretty big job for an electrician (I am one), much less a homeowner.

There are a couple posts that you have made that scare me. It goes with the saying of knowing just enough to be dangerous. I'm really not trying to insult you, but there is a reason electricians have to be licensed and insured. We are insured to compensate customers for mistakes we make, but if you make a mistake, I don't think you will be as lucky with your insurance company.
 
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#20 ·
I will add his comment due some area he did mention it have to be done by electrician also the time window if you want to get ahold of inspector ( in some area all I will say Bon Chance { Good luck } ) due their shedule you have to timed it ahead of the time.

I have done alot of service changeover and they are not a easy fest if you are not aware with some of the code change along the way.

Merci,
Marc
 
#25 ·
ALSO just wanted to throw this out there to all the neysayers out there-
Last time i checked, i was logged onto the DIYchatroom, where a DIY'er could get advice and seek knowledge and sometimes give it too. Thank You to all who can answer questions and chat professionally. Off to bed with my arse.....gotta work tomorrow.:)
Steve
 
#26 ·
1) Not knowing that neutrals will carry a load under normal circumstances.
2) While A ground rod is all code requires, be prepared to prove the resistance to earth or install a second ground rod.
3) As I live in a different part of the country and typical construction is vastly different, I am a little confused on your water ground. Simply jumpering the meter is not the only requirement around here.
 
#27 ·
1) Not knowing that neutrals will carry a load under normal circumstances.

All single et triphase with netural will carry a load however with triphase it will be little differnt than single phase are due the phase differnal.( I will explain more later )

2) While A ground rod is all code requires, be prepared to prove the resistance to earth or install a second ground rod.

It much cheaper to sink two ground rods than try to use the specailized ground rod tester to get 25 ohms or less.

3) As I live in a different part of the country and typical construction is vastly different, I am a little confused on your water ground. Simply jumpering the meter is not the only requirement around here.
For the city water if you have copper tubing that buried in the ground minuim of 10 feet that will be a ground purpose plus the ground rods.

Each area / states will varies a little with their local codes so as I always advise before .,, check with your local codes for latest info which they will change from time to time.


( all my answer is in bleu )

Merci,
Marc
 
#30 ·
We are allowed to cut the POCO's connections and reconnect them. Then the inspector will come out, then he will go back and inform the POCO that permanent connections are needed. Then the POCO will come out and make those connections when they feel like it. (Seriously, I have had customers wait over a year, and as much as 4 years for permanent connections)
 
#31 ·
Is that WFL or WE ? ( Wisconsin Fuel et Light or Wisconsin Engery ) If first one That is typical but latter it will be 50/50 chance unless large commercal they will deal with it rightaway.

Merci,
Marc
 
#35 ·
Is a subpanel, you have to keep the neutrals and grounds separate. If your new panel doesn't have a ground bar, you can purchase them. If your panel is Square D, then get a Square D ground bar.
 
#37 ·
This has been a very informative post. Thanks for sharing. I do know in the state of Washington a home owner can do all the work himself with a permit. Right up to were the power company comes to hook up the meter. I never dable in sparky stuff i would just spend the money to have some one do that for me who is licensed and know what he is doing. That is just me.
 
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