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Old 07-13-2013, 09:18 AM   #46
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Each hot will need a GFI. You will pigtail the neutral before the first GFI where the two hots split.

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:38 PM   #47
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


The only thing I don't understand is where you say:
"the downstream part of GFCI receptales you can NOT share the netural"

If you can't connect the neutrals together on all the downstream receptacles, what do you do for a neutral on those?
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:40 PM   #48
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


The neutral must be pigtailed before the split into each part of the 2 GFI's. After the GFI you just connect the same as any other receptacle.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #49
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


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Originally Posted by scottl31 View Post
The only thing I don't understand is where you say:
"the downstream part of GFCI receptales you can NOT share the netural"

If you can't connect the neutrals together on all the downstream receptacles, what do you do for a neutral on those?
You have "A" phase and "B" phase share a neutral. When you run "B" phase with the shared neutral to the line side of the GFI all load side receptacles will be on the same line side power and line side neutral . What you cannot do is use the line side neutral (share) with another "A" phase power or another "B" phase power.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #50
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Hmm... this "A" phase and "B" phase" talk is making me think I'm in over my head on this. If I just use 12/2 and have one circuit here, it would be a lot easier wouldn't it? I'd only need the first receptacle to be a GFCI and I'd be set, right? Or maybe use 12/3 and only use the black until I figure this out. My main objective now is to run the wire so I can replace the drywall.

Now, I like doing things correctly and by the book, but hypothetically, aside from violating local code, what are the real implications of not using GFCI on this garage circuit, since it is not a wet area and there is no water in there and we don't even park a car in there?
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:40 PM   #51
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Donít know what the gurus here think but this seems like a pretty good overview on Multiwire Branch Circuits and the relationship to the neutral conductor.

http://www.nfphampden.com/mbc.pdf

But is phase really needed in the explanation here for what you are doing?

I thought if you did a sketch of your proposed circuit(s), and looked then at the load side of the GFI, then if the current leaving the hot terminal on the load side would not equal the current coming back to the neutral terminal on the load side, then your circuit would not work? If they were equal then you would be OK. Seems like that simple viewpoint would catch any shared neutrals - or is that wrong?
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:58 PM   #52
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


The hot and neutral loads on the load side of a GFCI must be identical(okay, within 5 ma) or the GFCI will trip.


Neutrals cannot be shared on the load side of a GFCI device. They must be kept separate.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #53
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


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The hot and neutral loads on the load side of a GFCI must be identical(okay, within 5 ma) or the GFCI will trip.


Neutrals cannot be shared on the load side of a GFCI device. They must be kept separate.
Thatís nice and terse.

But not trying to put words in your mouth, would adding just a few more words make it a little clearer or would that make it just plain wrong?

(a) The hot and neutral loads on the load side of a GFCI must be identical(okay, within 5 ma) or the GFCI will trip.


(b) Neutrals cannot be shared on the load side of a GFCI device. They must be kept separate or else (a) will be violated?
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:46 PM   #54
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodboy View Post
Thatís nice and terse.

But not trying to put words in your mouth, would adding just a few more words make it a little clearer or would that make it just plain wrong?

(a) The hot and neutral loads on the load side of a GFCI must be identical(okay, within 5 ma) or the GFCI will trip.


(b) Neutrals cannot be shared on the load side of a GFCI device. They must be kept separate or else (a) will be violated?
You the grammar cop?
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #55
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


No Ė and you da man! lol

But semantics and clarification ( not grammar lol) seems like that might just be a little bit important on a DIY forum. No?
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:09 PM   #56
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Another basic question. Is there a standard or required number of inches above the floor that the outlets should be installed, keeping in mind that one will be over a work bench/table?
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:58 PM   #57
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


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Another basic question. Is there a standard or required number of inches above the floor that the outlets should be installed, keeping in mind that one will be over a work bench/table?
Most case I know the typical heights for receptales is 42 inch AFF ( Above Finshed Floor ) level due pretty good precentage of workbench and countertop is useally 32 to 36 inches.

But if you have higher height workbench then you will have to raise them up higher.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:33 PM   #58
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Hi Again guys,

I've decided the way I'd like my garage circuit to be. Please see image.

I have a couple questions:

To do proper GFCI, how and where does the neutral pigtail happen?

Is the 12/3 enough wire to go out to an overhead light and garage door opener?

If what I have is flawed in any way, please make some suggestions.

thanks,
Scott


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Old 09-29-2013, 05:02 PM   #59
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


The neutral wire from in the panel feed 12-3 cable will go to the line side of both of the Gfcis you'll need. The load side neutral(s) will go to any downstream outlets of that gfci but it must not be connected to any other neutrals.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:43 PM   #60
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Proper receptacle for circuit?


Does that mean that if the 2 outlets on the left are the only ones on the red circuit, then I only need to run an extra wire for a neutral from the first outlet to the second, and then pigtail the one inside the 12/3 at the second one to go on to the black circuit?

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