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Old 06-18-2009, 07:48 PM   #16
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Proper awg wire size to use?


I just want it to be right and safe even if I can get away with it... I think I can get the #10 ground through the 1" fairly easily so that problem is I guess solved! just get another ground bar ,split the neutral and ground wires, use #6 wire to install the welder on a 50 breaker and run the grounding rod(s)! 1 or 2 of them?
I think I need to add up all my stuff in the garage to see what im pulling through my sub panel! so how do I figure that out? I cant remember!
Thanks
Mark

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Old 06-18-2009, 07:52 PM   #17
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Proper awg wire size to use?


And the grounding rods just simply go through the wall and screw into the soon to be newly installed grounding bar? ( I know this is a DUH question but just want to be sure lol)
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #18
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Proper awg wire size to use?


You should have a 50 amp plug on your welder if not purchase one and install it. also get 50 amp recpt to go with it and
size your wire to the recpt. for 50 amps.
What is the capacity of your main house panel?
Do you have any plumbing in the detached garaged?
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:08 PM   #19
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Grounding rods go 8' deep into the ground
I used solid #4 wire that was recovered from my old panel to run out to the grounding rods. From the ground bus outside to the 1st rod then on to the 2nd rod
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:10 PM   #20
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Proper awg wire size to use?


money-pit, I have the 50amp receptical and the plug that came on the welder,I am going to buy a 50 amp breaker and as Surrogate said #6 wire for the welder circuit,and a grounding bar.I also need 2 grounding rods(they can go through the wall into the sub ground bar right?) And as long as I can get the #10 wire through the conduit for my ground (which can go to any of the bars in the main box right?) Ill be good. and to make my simple situation complicated what does the NEC say about how many wires I can put in the 1" conduit?

the house I believe is a 200 amp service and there is no plumbing in my garage.

Thanks
Mark
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:11 PM   #21
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Proper awg wire size to use?


thanks Scuba_Dave im a slow typer.lol
so I run 1 wire from the panel to rod 1 and from rod 1 to rod 2 or I need 2 seperate wires from the box?

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Old 06-18-2009, 08:22 PM   #22
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Proper awg wire size to use?


I looked at a fill calc & you are OK w/3 #4's & the #10
I used 1 wire to go out to both rods - unbroken
Rod 1 1st (closest) then on to rod #2
There are special (acorn nuts?) to attach the wire to the grounding rods. MAKE SURE you put them on BEFORE hammering the rods into the ground. My tops did deform

Its also easier to drive the rods into wet ground
My 1st rod I started & it was tough, soaked the ground over nite
The next day I kept the hose running & it went much easier
The 2nd rod went in real easy

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 06-23-2009 at 03:01 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:35 PM   #23
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Scuba_Dave thanks, being able to use the #10 in my existing installation really saves a lot of work for me and some $$ too!! the rest is easy to fix.. and thanks to everybody helping me

Mark
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:49 AM   #24
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Hi, I think you're on the right track, and I'd just like to offer this for consideration: If you do it right, you can probably get this all done by a licensed pro in two hours. Here's what I did for my garage: First, I collected lots of ideas, sketched out what I had, drew circuit diagrams and made load calculation worksheets for what I wanted, and then went over all that paper planning with a licensed electrician. Not surprisingly, there were issues I never even considered, for example in my area the service entrance for the PVC conduit has to be a certain height above ground so it is not buried in snow in the winter. Who'd have thunk it? Anyway, the pro helped me spruce up my plans, and the pro then pulled the permit, and I got busy. I left the box covers off and did not make the final connection at the main panel. The pro then came out for an hour, looked over everything just like I was a volunteer member of his crew, and once the pro was happy to accept responsibility for my work, the pro made the final connection. Then the inspector came out and gave me a sexy little "inspected & approved" sticker for the subpanel (always a nice touch when selling). Now I don't ever wonder if something I overlooked will come back to bite me someday, and the work is under the pro's liability insurance. All that for two hours at his hourly rate! Since electricity is dangerous, IMO this would have been cheap at twice the price.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:08 AM   #25
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Proper awg wire size to use?


I didnt figure they would do anything like that. thanks for the info, I have been running the garage off of the sub panel for a couple years now. and I am starting to refinish the garage and just want it right before I cover everything up. not sure what would happen to my resale value if i sell with out the inspection...something 4 me to think about
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:10 AM   #26
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Proper awg wire size to use?


and Im sure I probably should have the circuits protected by gfci's since it is in a garage
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #27
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Yup GFCI in the garage
My sub was inspected - we receive a paper inspection, no sticker
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #28
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Aside from your liability risk if there's a later problem that tracks back to you, when you go to sell there's a decent chance you'll be asked to sign under penalty of perjury a seller's disclosure and if so, one of the common questions is whether you know of any work that was done under the radar, ie without any permits that may have been required.

On the other thing... if the first licensed pro you ask to work on that basis gags on the idea, ask another. I also suggest you meet with the local electrical inspector FIRST and ask them if they have a problem with the idea. If you come in with your planning documents in hand (existing diagrams, desired diagrams, and load calculations) I gotta believe most local inspectors will be happy to preapprove this approach (key thing is pro pulls permit and pro makes final connection to service). That way, when you first approach some electrician you can mention that the inspector is already on board.

Have fun, good luck...
Mark
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:54 AM   #29
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Proper awg wire size to use?


guys thanks for your help.Im done with the panel for the most part, I still have to put the 4th wire in for a ground and add the gfci's and ground rods, but its in and safe for right now,i still have the neutral and ground bars tied together just to give me some grounding protection till I get the others in place... thanks again so much!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:55 PM   #30
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Proper awg wire size to use?


Make sure your sub panel feeders are de energized when you pull the ground wire through
How many 90 degree bends are in the run?
You can try snaking it first or use an existing conductor as a pull rope
Also which ever connector your pulling out of .I would thread on a metal bushing to protect the pvc connector(I'd probably feed into one also)
Metal elbows buried underground are required by the utilities in most places now
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