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-   -   problems with capacitor motor for pump (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/problems-capacitor-motor-pump-47966/)

joeypants 07-02-2009 01:45 PM

problems with capacitor motor for pump
 
I have a 115V 1/2 HP water pump that boosts the water pressure in the house. When I flip the switch, the motor hums and does not spin. there's a tiny jerk when I flip the switch. it gets very hot and the thermal switch is then tripped. I opened the switch panel and inside is an approx. 3 inch long 1 inch diameter capacitor. It smells fried. The pump spins freely by hand so it's not siezed. I'm thinking either the motor is fried or the capacitor is fried. The whole thing is italian and i'm not having much luck locating the original capacitor. it's 250V 40uf capacitor consisting of a sealed plastic case and wire leads. Not sure if it's a start capacitor or a run capacitor. Can someone let me know which type of capacitor it would be and if that could be the problem? Thanks.

adpanko 07-02-2009 02:17 PM

take a picture and bring it to a plumbing supply house. If they don't have the specific part, they can at least hopefully tell you the manufacturer or sell you a new pump if needed.

300zx 07-02-2009 02:21 PM

http://wanywz.hisupplier.com/product...55uf-60uf.html Google search 250V 40uf motor capacitor Lots of different ones.Photo would help

joeypants 07-02-2009 02:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of the thing. I have found both "start" and "run" capacitors that are 40uf and 250v so I'm not sure which one it is. THe original is a inco sintex 25s, but that does not come up in any google searches. the pump is italian made and over 10 yrs old.

Yoyizit 07-02-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeypants (Post 296282)
I'm not sure which one it is.

Only two wires, doesn't matter. I'd go with any 370 vac rating or above, near 40 uF, bipolar (AC) cap.
250v may be the DC or the AC rating.
For better prices check Digi-key, Mouser, Jameco, Allied Electronics or AllElectronics.

Check the cap, if you want.
Discharge the cap with a 15k, 2w resistor.
Charge to ~9v with a 9v battery.
Discharge through a 1 megohm resistor.
When the voltage reaches 37% of initial value (e.g., 9.6v), the time in seconds to get there is the value in uF.

Or,
hook the cap in series with a 7-1/2w incand. bulb in series with 120v.
Measure the voltage across and the current through the cap.
At 60 Hz, uF = 2652 I/V
E.g., I = 60 mA, V = 4v, C = 40 uF.

micromind 07-02-2009 04:13 PM

I'd get a run capacitor. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it's entirely possible that the motor is a PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) type. If so, the capacitor is always in the circuit.

A start capacitor can only be energized for a minute or so, then it'll blow up. Most start capacitor specs limit use to 30 seconds on, then a 2 minute rest. A run capacitor is designed to be energized continuously. Hence, it is physically larger, and costs more.

A Grainger #2GU27 will likely work. It's 40uF, 370 volts, and 2" dia, and 3-7/8 long. It's a bit larger that the original, you might have to get creative mounting it.

When replacing capacitors, the uF must be very close, and voltage of the replacement must be the same or higher.

Most start capacitors have a range of ratings, like 43-52uF. Run capacitors have a single rating, like 40uF.

A word of caution, a capacitor can hold a charge for years. 40uF at 250 volts can be lethal. Before you touch the terminals, short it out using a screwdriver. Usually, if it's installed in a motor, it's already discharged through the windings, but every now and then you'll get a nice SNAP across the terminals.

Rob

Yoyizit 07-02-2009 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromind (Post 296335)
A run capacitor is designed to be energized continuously. Hence, it is physically larger, and costs more. 1
40uF at 250 volts can be lethal. 2
short it out using a screwdriver. 3

1 I stand corrected.
2 generally you need at least one joule of stored elec. energy to kill healthy adults
3 may shorten the life of the cap

Just my two cents. . .

kbsparky 07-02-2009 07:10 PM

Are you sure its the capacitor? Those same symptoms will occur if the starting/running centrifugal switch is bad.

Did you take the backside off the motor, and verify that switch is properly positioned? :whistling2:

micromind 07-02-2009 11:24 PM

If it's possible to determine whether a start switch exists, we would then know if we need a start or run capacitor. It's also possible that instead of a start switch, there's a potential relay. It's also possible that it's a PSC motor.

If it is capacitor start, then an open start switch will give the same symptoms as a bad start capacitor, as stated above.

I don't know why, but I get the idea it's PSC.

Rob

J. V. 07-03-2009 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeypants (Post 296282)
Here is a picture of the thing. I have found both "start" and "run" capacitors that are 40uf and 250v so I'm not sure which one it is. THe original is a inco sintex 25s, but that does not come up in any google searches. the pump is italian made and over 10 yrs old.

If you do not know how to check the caps, just replace both of them. Or have someone who knows how to check them test them out before you replace. Look at the top of the cap. (where the leads attach) There is a small hole. This hole lets the smoke out. :laughing: You can sometimes determine which one is bad by looking.

kbsparky 07-03-2009 10:22 PM

Yeah, everyone should know that things like motors, capacitors, etc all run on smoke. The electricity is only there to contain the smoke.

Once the smoke gets out, the device is no longer any good. :jester:

WFO 07-03-2009 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeypants (Post 296282)
Here is a picture of the thing. I have found both "start" and "run" capacitors that are 40uf and 250v so I'm not sure which one it is. THe original is a inco sintex 25s, but that does not come up in any google searches. the pump is italian made and over 10 yrs old.

I have tried to order caps from GE and been told $20, $30.

I went to the local motor rewind shop and got the identical parts for about $3 each.
Caps are a lot easier (and cheaper) to try replacing than a centrifugal throw-out switch. Personally I'd rather gamble <$6 than a whole new motor.
Plus the fact that my experience (limited though it may be) it's been the cap 90% of the time.

J. V. 07-04-2009 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFO (Post 296931)
I have tried to order caps from GE and been told $20, $30.

I went to the local motor rewind shop and got the identical parts for about $3 each.
Caps are a lot easier (and cheaper) to try replacing than a centrifugal throw-out switch. Personally I'd rather gamble <$6 than a whole new motor.
Plus the fact that my experience (limited though it may be) it's been the cap 90% of the time.

Yes, You can get some good deals at motor shops. I am a bit surprised at the cost though. Seems like someone forgot to mark the caps up. $3.00 would be about what they pay for the most common ones. Good for you. :thumbsup:

bosley11 10-13-2009 05:18 PM

pump cap
 
Join the club on blown caps. My Grunfos (Italian) water pump has blown two caps. The first was a 25 uf 250v and replaced with 30 uf 250v. It is a start cap for the pump. Blew that one today. You can tell, they usually leak a hard aluminum type of goo at the opposite end of the terminals. If you need to check it, take off the top of the control panel (four screws), loosen the control board (2 screws), move aside and you can see the cap. Grey, about 1 in D and 3 in long.


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