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-   -   Preventing "Over-ride" of 12v Shotgun Lock with Keypad (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/preventing-over-ride-12v-shotgun-lock-keypad-95490/)

rdiggidy 02-14-2011 03:26 PM

Preventing "Over-ride" of 12v Shotgun Lock with Keypad
 
Here is my recent thread where I got some help from you guys and got the power issue figured out:
http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/12v-s...77/#post579413

Unfortunately the keypad I was initially going to use is no longer being made, so I am now going to be using this keypad:

http://www.ieib.com/product_detail.php?productId=1230

Manual/specs are here:

http://www.ieib.com/pdf/manuals/212i...LW_Install.pdf

I have 3 questions, any help with any of the 3 would be greatly apprecaited! (Just for info I know very little about electrical issues).

1. I was initially planning on installing this setup on an internal wall (with no insulation) and really wasn't worried about any fire danger. I'm now planning on running the 12v power and ground in an external wall that does have insulation in it. Any fire concerns with running: basic wire? Should I be using romex?

2. The Electro-Lock that holds the shotgun, opens as soon as it has 12V's applied to it. With the keypad listed above, does this look right for how it should be wired (mostly not sure about pin #10 going out of the keypad):

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/s...ingDiagram.jpg

3. For the life of me I cannot figure out a way to prevent someone from just ripping off the keypad and splicing together the 12V in to the keypad to the 12V out to the Electro Lock. Doing this would unlock the shotgun.

I could use something like this: http://www.ezalarms.com/ezStore123/D...roductID=27508

In a setup like this:

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/s...withsafety.jpg

But it looks to me like it essentially does nothing, as there is still 12v's going into the box that could still be used to unlock the power suppply.

Finding a way to thwart the brute force "rip the keypad off" is not 100% necessary. Most thieves are probably not going to have the time or know how to pull off the keypad, and start touching wires together to see if they can get it to unlock. But I'd feel a little better knowing it couldn't be done (or at least could not be easily done).

Thanks for any help!

mpoulton 02-14-2011 05:32 PM

There is no real solution to that problem. It would be possible to build a lock that communicates digitally with the keypad, and has secure, encapusulated circuitry that resists tampering. But that's not what you have, and not what you're going to get. The best approach is to make the keypad very well attached to the wall. Of course, if someone can rip the keypad off and hotwire it, they could just rip the shotgun mount off the wall, too.

rdiggidy 02-14-2011 06:12 PM

@Mpoulton

Thanks for the reply! I'll try to get the keypad on the wall as best I can, and I think I will throw in a few "dummy wires" just so you'd really need a Voltmeter to know what wire does do what (without looking at the pin schematic).

rdiggidy 02-15-2011 11:30 AM

Anybody else able to help with question #1 or #2?

McSteve 02-15-2011 12:49 PM

As far as the keypad wiring goes, you've got it almost right, but you want the shotgun lock connected to pin 8, which gets power when the code is entered. Pin 10 will have power until the code is entered. Also, you need to bring your 12v supply to pin 9, as well as pin 1. Pin 9 provides power to the relay common, which will be connected to pin 8 when the code is entered.

rdiggidy 02-15-2011 01:45 PM

@McSteve

Thanks for the clarification!!

rdiggidy 02-15-2011 06:16 PM

I read on an RV forum that they pull 12v 10 gauge stranded wire all over those RV's to power just about everything. So I'm feeling like it's OK to pass on the romex and use the 12V 10gauge auto wire I have around the house. If it's not a fire danger in an RV I presume it won't be a fire danger in a home.

Gigs 02-15-2011 08:49 PM

Personally, I went with a mechanical Vline shotgun box. The pushbuttons can be operated in 2 seconds flat, probably faster than electronic.

Red Squirrel 02-15-2011 09:10 PM

Do not ground the box, instead put the hot on it, and make it come from another circuit (120v one) and have another keypad elsewhere in the house to turn off this load.

Fun shall ensue if someone ever does break in and try to dismantle it.

mpoulton 02-16-2011 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Squirrel (Post 591887)
Do not ground the box, instead put the hot on it, and make it come from another circuit (120v one) and have another keypad elsewhere in the house to turn off this load.

Fun shall ensue if someone ever does break in and try to dismantle it.

It is irresponsible and inappropriate to provide "advice" like this, especially on a DIY site with potentially inexperienced readers. Your suggestion is dangerous, an extreme code violation, and would subject the DIYer to liability if anyone (even an intruder) were injured or killed.

rdiggidy 02-16-2011 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs (Post 591873)
Personally, I went with a mechanical Vline shotgun box. The pushbuttons can be operated in 2 seconds flat, probably faster than electronic.

Not a bad option, but probably twice the price of my current setup (but probably 1/10th of the work :-)

rdiggidy 02-16-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Squirrel (Post 591887)
Do not ground the box, instead put the hot on it, and make it come from another circuit (120v one) and have another keypad elsewhere in the house to turn off this load.

Fun shall ensue if someone ever does break in and try to dismantle it.

:laughing:

rdiggidy 02-16-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpoulton (Post 592200)
It is irresponsible and inappropriate to provide "advice" like this, especially on a DIY site with potentially inexperienced readers. Your suggestion is dangerous, an extreme code violation, and would subject the DIYer to liability if anyone (even an intruder) were injured or killed.

I took the "advice" to be sarcastic, but it is probably sound advise for a forum full of newbies like myself.

mpoulton 02-16-2011 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdiggidy (Post 592222)
I took the "advice" to be sarcastic, but it is probably sound advise for a forum full of newbies like myself.

As sarcastic advice, it's great! However, people actually DO these sorts of stupid things sometimes, and the results occasionally end up in the news. Since these forums are archived and searchable by anyone looking for answers on the internet, and since sarcasm is often hard to interpret online, it never seems like a good idea.

Red Squirrel 02-16-2011 04:13 PM

I was kidding, of course. The issue is if someone else other then a thief touches it. Chances are you would not die from that, you'd just get a pretty nasty surprise, but I suppose there are lot of factors that could change that.

Another fun thief deterrent is a DIY FM200 system but does not work if you have pets.


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