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-   -   Powering a 50A 220V outdoor swimspa (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/powering-50a-220v-outdoor-swimspa-32481/)

firisland1 11-23-2008 05:34 PM

Powering a 50A 220V outdoor swimspa
 
Hello,
I am running 220V about 100ft underground to power a swimspa (integral GFCI). I plan to run #6 underground rated wires. Two hots, neutral and a ground. I plan to use 1 inch PVC (rated for underground) buried about 16-18 inches deep. The trench does not run under driveways, sidewalks etc. There will be two 45 deg bends plus a 90 degree where the conduit rises out of the ground just outside the breaker panel.
My current panel has a 100A main breaker, a 30A breaker for a dryer - not used.
Question 1. Can I substitute a 50A 220V breaker for the 30A current dryer breaker - disconnecting it from the laundry? If not, can I increase the main breaker to say 120 or 150A. ( At some point in the future I'm replacing my 220V electric range with a gas range. Currently there is a 40A breaker connected to the electric range. )
Question 2. Any advice on my plan for running the wiring underground etc.? e.g. should I assemble the full 100ft and pull the wires with a snake or pull part way breaking at one of the 45's?
thanks very much,
Bob

dSilanskas 11-23-2008 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firisland1 (Post 189163)
Hello,
I am running 220V about 100ft underground to power a swimspa (integral GFCI). I plan to run #6 underground rated wires. Two hots, neutral and a ground. I plan to use 1 inch PVC (rated for underground) buried about 16-18 inches deep. The trench does not run under driveways, sidewalks etc. There will be two 45 deg bends plus a 90 degree where the conduit rises out of the ground just outside the breaker panel.
My current panel has a 100A main breaker, a 30A breaker for a dryer - not used.
Question 1. Can I substitute a 50A 220V breaker for the 30A current dryer breaker - disconnecting it from the laundry? If not, can I increase the main breaker to say 120 or 150A. ( At some point in the future I'm replacing my 220V electric range with a gas range. Currently there is a 40A breaker connected to the electric range. )
Question 2. Any advice on my plan for running the wiring underground etc.? e.g. should I assemble the full 100ft and pull the wires with a snake or pull part way breaking at one of the 45's?
thanks very much,
Bob


Question 1. You can remove the double pole 30 amp breaker and install a double pole 50 amp breaker sure.

Question 2. I would pipe it the whole way and push a snake through the pipe to bring the wires in. But if your using 1" PVC you are only allowed to install 3 # 6's in 1" PVC. So your pull might be a little hard you should make it easier for yourself and up to code and increase the pipe size to 1 1/4" PVC

theatretch85 11-23-2008 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dSilanskas (Post 189254)
Question 2. I would pipe it the whole way and push a snake through the pipe to bring the wires in. But if your using 1" PVC you are only allowed to install 3 # 6's in 1" PVC. So your pull might be a little hard you should make it easier for yourself and up to code and increase the pipe size to 1 1/4" PVC

Where did you get this information? 3 #6's in 1" PVC? I don't see why 1" PVC would not be acceptable for this application. If the pulling the wire is in any way difficult, get some pulling lubricant for the wires. Just to be sure, your'e using the gray electrical PVC, not the white plumbing PVC.

joey b 11-23-2008 10:56 PM

this chart says you can use 1" SCH 40 for up to 6 #6 wires.
http://www.jhlarson.com/ind_tables/fill/pvcfill.htm

I believe code is 18" underground, so make sure it is at least that.

jamiedolan 11-23-2008 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dSilanskas (Post 189254)
Question 1. You can remove the double pole 30 amp breaker and install a double pole 50 amp breaker sure.

Question 2. I would pipe it the whole way and push a snake through the pipe to bring the wires in. But if your using 1" PVC you are only allowed to install 3 # 6's in 1" PVC. So your pull might be a little hard you should make it easier for yourself and up to code and increase the pipe size to 1 1/4" PVC

I see .0507 for a 6 gage thhn. And .314 for 1" ENT @ 40%. Even if you run size the ground the same and run it as # 6, I get a total of .2028

I agree 1.25" is a easier pull, but it does not appear to me that it is required.

Is there something I am missing?

Jamie

Speedy Petey 11-24-2008 05:29 AM

I never use 1-1/4" for a 50-60 amp spa circuit. I use 1", and I do a lot of spas.

firisland1 11-24-2008 06:30 PM

Thanks to all for the great replies.
Regarding depth. Somewhere I'd read that if using underground rated GREY pvc and NOT under driveways as my run will be - that 12 inches depth was sufficient. Could someone please check this out ( I'm 16-17 inches down now and its REAL HARD ).
Bob

jamiedolan 11-24-2008 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firisland1 (Post 189706)
Thanks to all for the great replies.
Regarding depth. Somewhere I'd read that if using underground rated GREY pvc and NOT under driveways as my run will be - that 12 inches depth was sufficient. Could someone please check this out ( I'm 16-17 inches down now and its REAL HARD ).
Bob

The way I read it, it is 18".

NEC - 2005:

Section 680.20 Pools

Table 680.10 Minimum Burial Depths
Minimum Burial:

Nonmetallic raceways
listed for direct burial
without concrete
18"


IMC and RMC can be burried at a depth of 6" accourding to the same table. Both IMC and RMC are threaded thick walled metal conduit, IMC is lighter than RMC. RMC is very very heavy and very expensive. I have not noticed IMC at the big box stores. I am pretty sure it is RMC that they stock at most big box stores since that is what is used for masthead runs.

Jamie

J. V. 11-25-2008 10:36 AM

One inch PVC conduit will hold much more than you need. That makes it the perfect size for you.

frenchelectrican 11-25-2008 06:51 PM

My SOP is used 1 inch PVC conduit { both sheule 40 and 80 }
with #6 THHN/THWN indiviual conductors.

Bury them at 18 inch { 500mm } or deeper ya will be fine.

Merci,Marc


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