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Old 10-04-2013, 12:29 PM   #1
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Was looking at house the other day and asked about the average electricity bill per month. Was told the house had a Power Saver 3000 installed a few years ago and it has reduced the electricity bill.

He is the quote of what was told to the Realtor. "It is called Power Saver 3000 and was added to the breaker panel - 20 AMP and a 230 breaker. It equalizes the frequency and stabalizes the electricity."

Has anyone ever seen such a device, installed one, or have knowledge of what it does.

I say good money was flushed down the toilet.

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Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM   #2
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Power Saver 3000 ?


for a residential application, they are useless. power factor is rarely an issue in a home, unless the utility has a crappy power factor or you have a bunch of motors constantly in use. a better power factor does make for a better system but customers are charged for real power use, not apparent (i.e. charged by kwh, not kvarh). you could have a power factor of .5 and your bill would be the same as if the pf was .95.

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Old 10-04-2013, 12:46 PM   #3
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Power Saver 3000 ?


it's a bunch of snake oil! they only help on industrial applications, they help correct power factor. a resident does not need correction.this is a hot topic at another website.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #4
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Power Saver 3000 ?


I also concur that PF correction for residential is a waste of money.

You will save a lot more money by just turning off the lights.

If you want to invest in something.....install CFL and/or LED lighting. Install occupancy switches in bedrooms and bathrooms (my wife and kids do NOT know how to turn off a light)...insulate....etc.

There is no 'magic' money saver for energy...except...reduce what you use....

The "PowerSaver" is about as good as one of those magnets that you put on your gas line of your car....
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:55 PM   #5
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Power Saver 3000 ?


to be fair, the device does indeed clean up some power factor but at a scale that is all but insignificant. in a normal home, it would take, like, decades to see a payback.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:07 PM   #6
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Capacitors correct lagging PF. If the power factor is leading, they make the situation worse.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #7
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Power Saver 3000 ?


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Capacitors correct lagging PF. If the power factor is leading, they make the situation worse.
if you have a leading power factor in your home, something is very wrong.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #8
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Here is a pretty good write up on Power Factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

One important thing to understand is that PF correction is only going to help if you have high amp loads. The losses with poor PF stem from the line losses due to short amp spikes. For the house, the losses are basically nothing...but for the power company, it can add up. Hence, they typically require a plant with a 25HP or higher motor to have PF correction.

One important point....if your house had only resistive loads (electric heat, incandesc lamps, etc), your PF would be 1. PF correction would do nothing for you. It's when you run motors and items with switching supplies like CFL's and computers that PF can drop.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:35 PM   #9
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Power Saver 3000 ?


It's a scam....
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:50 PM   #10
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post
if you have a leading power factor in your home, something is very wrong.
If you have a lot of compact fluorescent lights and electronic power supplies, the home's power factor may be leading, especially if you do not have air conditioning running.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
if you have a leading power factor in your home, something is very wrong.
You meaning like living close (electrically) to a large source of PF correction ? Ever heard of a power plant cranking out extra Var's ? Or maybe a large cap bank switching in ?

Anyway, the amount of correction applied by the household device is like spit in the ocean as compared to system PF.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:30 PM   #12
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Power Saver 3000 ?


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If you have a lot of compact fluorescent lights and electronic power supplies, the home's power factor may be leading, especially if you do not have air conditioning running.
maybe but that would be pretty unusual, seeing as how the system is likely lagging anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso954 View Post
You meaning like living close (electrically) to a large source of PF correction ? Ever heard of a power plant cranking out extra Var's ? Or maybe a large cap bank switching in ?

Anyway, the amount of correction applied by the household device is like spit in the ocean as compared to system PF.
i suppose if one lived REALLY close to these areas, you could get some lead but the pf correction operates on a system-wide basis. it isn't like next to the cap bank it is .8 leading and ten miles down the road it is lagging.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:19 PM   #13
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Quote:
i suppose if one lived REALLY close to these areas, you could get some lead but the pf correction operates on a system-wide basis.
Maybe your utility is small enough that they work that way. But I will guarantee you that PF correction in Bakersfield has very little impact on the SF Pennisula or up in Redding. There are too many loads and sources, connected by too many miles of transmission lines to have a single system wide PF.

You ever see cap banks on poles, or cap banks/ reactors in a substation when other substations don't have them ? That is PF correction on a more localized basis.

PF correction can also be done with Synchronous Condensers or Static Var Compensators, but those are harder to recognize.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:28 PM   #14
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Power Saver 3000 ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso954 View Post
Maybe your utility is small enough that they work that way. But I will guarantee you that PF correction in Bakersfield has very little impact on the SF Pennisula or up in Redding. There are too many loads and sources, connected by too many miles of transmission lines to have a single system wide PF.

You ever see cap banks on poles, or cap banks/ reactors in a substation when other substations don't have them ? That is PF correction on a more localized basis.

PF correction can also be done with Synchronous Condensers or Static Var Compensators, but those are harder to recognize.
i understand there isn't a single power factor for the whole country. my comment was more that i don't think one will get an appreciably high leading power factor simply by being in close proximity to the equipment. maybe a little higher.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:26 AM   #15
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Power Saver 3000 ?


First this is the old snake oil equivalent for a home owner in an electrical package, as noted.
Second even if you had a bad power factor and the utility penalized home owners for the low PF, this device would be worthless as the PF caps are sized based on the loads and are switched in and out as the load is on line (point of use). Or there is a large cap bank that measures pf and switches in steps as required.
Third look into this 200, 300, 400, 500 dollar "back box" and see 30 dollars worth of caps.

And any electrical contractor selling these devices is either stupid or a crook.

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