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Old 11-09-2012, 09:35 AM   #16
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


Do I need to use gfci receptacles all around?

Whats the most cost efficient wiring method: I wasn't planning to close the walls in, but I may. Can I stub down conduit for my outlets and run romex (is NM the correct type?)cable along the trusses, etc at ceiling level and come down into the emt stubs?

Is 1/2" EMT sufficient for 12ga. / 20A circuits?

Since the ceiling is open, can I run it this way at all, or does it all need to be in emt or bx or other metal clad cable?

Is there a requirement for receptacle height? I'm planning a few at 18" AFF, and 2 at about 42" AFF at a workbench.

What is the correct term for a 4-outlet receptacle: quadplex, doubleduplex?

I'm working on the drawings now, so I'm to the point of having a lot of specific question.

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Old 11-10-2012, 01:03 AM   #17
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Do I need to use gfci receptacles all around?

Oui., You wil have all the 120 volt circuits to be protected with GFCI's I doubt there is any more loopholes still left but electures do live in your state so he will know more details if there any loopholes or extempts on them but I really doubt it due they are pretty much removed on 2008 and later verison of NEC codes. ( some local codes may show up )


Whats the most cost efficient wiring method: I wasn't planning to close the walls in, but I may. Can I stub down conduit for my outlets and run romex (is NM the correct type?)cable along the trusses, etc at ceiling level and come down into the emt stubs?

Oui, you can use the EMT conduit for protection when you stub it down. ( read below for correct size )

Is 1/2" EMT sufficient for 12ga. / 20A circuits?

Oui for single cable without issue however don't try to jam two cables in there unless you have 3/4 inch conduit it will have little more room to slide it down.

Since the ceiling is open, can I run it this way at all, or does it all need to be in emt or bx or other metal clad cable?

With open ceiling the most common methold I done is use the slipon bushing on the top of the EMT conduit. You can use the MC cable but you will need proper fitting to fit on the junction box. ( I would not use the BX cable they are touchy to deal with it if you are not aware with them due the grounding issue )

Is there a requirement for receptacle height? I'm planning a few at 18" AFF, and 2 at about 42" AFF at a workbench.

Anything over 18 inches are fine but for myself I will just keep it standarized on the height due it easier to find them. ( useally 42 or 48 inches is most common )

What is the correct term for a 4-outlet receptacle: quadplex, doubleduplex?

Quadplex is most common term. however there is few differnt verison of "quadplex" receptale some will be one peice with 4 receptale and other will be double duplex receptales ( latter is more common )


I'm working on the drawings now, so I'm to the point of having a lot of specific question.
My reply is in bleu and also please do post your drawing so one of us can assit you on corrections if need to be.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:45 AM   #18
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


So, the first device on the circuit needs to be GFCI, including the ceiling overheard door motor outlets? Would I need an additional outlet upstream at normal height for accessibility?

To clarify, I can run the NM above the wall plates and along the trusses until I hit the drops into emt, yes?

Will the detail for the open wire into the conduit stubs require the condiut stubbed up through the top wall plate, or does it just have to be above a certain height? I am only asking for better understanding. I realize I'll go through the top plates if I want to close in the walls later.

I will post a drawing when I get back to my AutoCad pc.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:34 AM   #19
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


If you are on the 2008 NEC you cannot use romex (NM) in a detached garage.

If you are on the 2011 NEC you can use romex (NM).
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:43 PM   #20
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If you are on the 2008 NEC you cannot use romex (NM) in a detached garage.

If you are on the 2011 NEC you can use romex (NM).


I'll have to check.
heres a sample of my drawing:
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File Type: pdf JTC2 Rev E-Elec.pdf (66.0 KB, 55 views)
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:53 AM   #21
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


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I'll have to check.
heres a sample of my drawing:
I look at the drawing ( readers you will have to click on the link to open up the Abobe drawing )

Not very many readers I ran into they will have nice details on drawing so that is pretty rare I ran into in this fourm, so therefore that is a big plus.

Allright., let me suggest couple things so you can correct it along the way.,

For the circuit #3 which you will have for GDO and one receptale at " west " wall I will suggest that you put the GFCI receptale at the wall and go up to the GDO receptales it much easier to do this instead use the GFCI on the ceiling they can be pain in butt to reset espcally if you have a car or truck in the garage in the space where you need to get it.

The other thing I will suggest but it will be nice if you put a receptale both inside and one outside between the two large garage doors due you may run vacumm cleaner or block heater or whatever it will so you will not have to worry about the cord go inside the garage when someone close the door and the door hit the cord.

For the service door I really suggest have a simple coach light or a luminaire with motion sensor so when you walk to the service door the light will come on automatique so you don't have to fumble in dark to find the door knob.

For open floursecent luminarie make sure you get the cold weather verison due the garage typically unheated and I always keep one indentscent light socket near the service door inside the garage., The reason why is when very cold days the flourscent bulb may not be fully lit up it will stay dim when it is cold until the bulb is warm up then it will brighten up to normal level.

And you will have to sink two ground rods as well ( use the #6 bare copper for this purpose and it is legit up to 100 amp service ) keep the rods minuim of 6 feet apart more is better useally 8 feet is typical.

Just remember keep the netural and ground seperated at the subpanel.

If more question just holler.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:49 PM   #22
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


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I'll have to check.
heres a sample of my drawing:
Interestingly I just updated my thread on DIY in NJ. All permits issued on or after 11/7/2012 shall comply with the 2011 NEC and adopted ammendments. As for GFI requirements, there is a post (#13) in my thread about adopted ammendments, and specifically GFI requirements in 210.8. If you install a single receptacle outlet for the GD openers, GFI protection is not required. Since the 2011 NEC is in effect, romex is permitted.

I'm glad to see my DIY in NJ thread is getting some use.
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Last edited by electures; 11-13-2012 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:53 PM   #23
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


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Originally Posted by jtcnj View Post
So, the first device on the circuit needs to be GFCI, including the ceiling overheard door motor outlets? Would I need an additional outlet upstream at normal height for accessibility?

To clarify, I can run the NM above the wall plates and along the trusses until I hit the drops into emt, yes?

Will the detail for the open wire into the conduit stubs require the condiut stubbed up through the top wall plate, or does it just have to be above a certain height? I am only asking for better understanding. I realize I'll go through the top plates if I want to close in the walls later.

I will post a drawing when I get back to my AutoCad pc.
GD opener receptacles do not require GFI protection as long as they are single receptacles. drops down the walls can be romex. There are no height requirements for receptacles in residential garages.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:10 PM   #24
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


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GD opener receptacles do not require GFI protection as long as they are single receptacles. drops down the walls can be romex. There are no height requirements for receptacles in residential garages.
This differs from the NEC. The NEC has removed the single receptacle exception. Also the GDO would require GFI protection. The GFI needs to be accessible, not ceiling mounted.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:38 PM   #25
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This differs from the NEC. The NEC has removed the single receptacle exception. Also the GDO would require GFI protection. The GFI needs to be accessible, not ceiling mounted.
Incorrect. The OP is from New Jersey. Follow the link in my signature for DIY in New Jersey. Post #1 clearly spells out one of New Jersey's local ammendments to the 2011 NEC which reads as follows;

3. Chapter 2 of the electrical subcode, entitled "Wiring and Protection," is amended as follows:
i. Section 210.8 (A)(2) and (5) of Article 210, entitled Branch Circuits, is deleted; it is replaced by Section 210.8(A)(2) and (5) and the exceptions in the National Electrical Code 2005 as follows:
"210.8(A)(2) - Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use.
Exception No. 1 to (2) - Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2 to (2) - A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)7, or (A)(8).
Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(2) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).
210.8(A)(5) - Unfinished basements: For purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like.
Exception No. 1 to (5) - Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2 to (5) - A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)7, or (A)(8).
Exception No. 3 to (5) - A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection."

What this means is that we are reverting back to the 2005 NEC for these sections when wiring a new building or rehabing an existing building.

I'm surprised you missed this Jim.
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Last edited by electures; 11-13-2012 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:47 AM   #26
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Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.


Thanks for the great info. My original ckt#3 had an outlet at the end of the run on the south wall, after the GDO outlets (the overhead doors face east.)

I re-worked that to include the outlets insided and outside between the 2 overheads, the first, (inside) outlet is a GFCI.

Is the plastic bushing screwed on the end of the box connect at the tops of my stubs an acceptable entry, or do i need the emt to romex clamp style connector?

When I have to run romex perpendicular across the trusses, can I staple to the top of the ceiling joist member of the truss or must (or can) I drill it? Can you drill truss assemblies at all without affecting the structural integrity?

Heres my re-worked drawing (in PDF):
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File Type: pdf JTC2 Rev 0.1-PDF Layout2.pdf (69.1 KB, 36 views)
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #27
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I was adding that for any other posters to show there was a difference that would not apply elsewhere.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:36 AM   #28
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Finally got my foundation poured and construction is underway. Someone mentioned to me after the pour that I need an ufer ground to ground the rebar in the concrete. From what I read so far the ufer ground is an alternate grounding method to driving ground rods, not an addtional requirement. Other things I read say the rebar is considered a conductor and must be grounded.

Can someone please clarify this?
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:48 AM   #29
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Finally got my foundation poured and construction is underway. Someone mentioned to me after the pour that I need an ufer ground to ground the rebar in the concrete. From what I read so far the ufer ground is an alternate grounding method to driving ground rods, not an addtional requirement. Other things I read say the rebar is considered a conductor and must be grounded.

Can someone please clarify this?
The Ufer ground is not "reguired". However, if it is available it shall be used. Ground rods are all you need.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:07 AM   #30
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the foundation rebar only needs to be bonded to the grounded electrode system if the rebar meets the criteria of a grounding electrode. this means it has to be at least a 1/2" in diameter and have a continuous piece at least 20' long (or smaller pieces wire-tied together to create the equivalent of 20'). you are permitted to bond the rebar, even if it doesn't meet this criteria but are not required to.

also, only one of these needs to be bonded to the grounding electrode system. if your foundation had, say, 10 pieces of 20', 1/2" rebar, only one of them needs to be bonded. you don't need a bond at each and every piece of rebar.

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