DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Electrical (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/)
-   -   Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/power-new-20x20-detached-garage-nj-157284/)

jtcnj 09-19-2012 10:37 AM

Power for new 20x20 detached garage, NJ.
 
I plan to add a 100A sub panel. The meter is on the other end of the house. So if I run the proper size cable through the basement about 60', I would then have to go underground about 30' to the garage.

I have a new 200A service in the house. I need a 50A 220V circuit for a Stick / Tig welder, some overhead lighting and some receptacles. I'll need probably 1 or 2 20A circuits available 1 at a time for another 115V Mig welder on a cart. Probably need another 220V circuit for a future air compressor upgrade. I expect may be 2 more 15 or 20A circuit with 2 or 3 max receptacles.

The rest will be typical 110v: air compressor, drills, grinders, or mitre, circular saws etc.. Typically only one the welders or air compressor would be running in addition to one drill or grinder, etc. at a time.

What size and type of wire / cable do I need to feed this. Do I use a panel with a 100A main, or do 2 100A breakers go in the main panel? I forget the terms for the panel with or without a main disconnect.

electures 09-19-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtcnj (Post 1012985)
I plan to add a 100A sub panel. The meter is on the other end of the house. So if I run the proper size cable through the basement about 60', I would then have to go underground about 30' to the garage.

I have a new 200A service in the house. I need a 50A 220V circuit for a Stick / Tig welder, some overhead lighting and some receptacles. I'll need probably 1 or 2 20A circuits available 1 at a time for another 115V Mig welder on a cart. Probably need another 220V circuit for a future air compressor upgrade. I expect may be 2 more 15 or 20A circuit with 2 or 3 max receptacles.

The rest will be typical 110v: air compressor, drills, grinders, or mitre, circular saws etc.. Typically only one the welders or air compressor would be running in addition to one drill or grinder, etc. at a time.

What size and type of wire / cable do I need to feed this. Do I use a panel with a 100A main, or do 2 100A breakers go in the main panel? I forget the terms for the panel with or without a main disconnect.

#1 AL in conduit. (2) hots, 1 neutral (white or taped depending on size), and a green ground. Panel has to rated suitable for use as service equipment. Drive two ground rods.

SInce you are from The Great Police State of New Jersey, here is a lot of useful information I have posted and continue to update.

jtcnj 09-19-2012 06:51 PM

thanks, actually that post is my book mark for this site from a while ago.
How do I connect to the main service panel in the house, a double pole 100A breaker?

electures 09-19-2012 07:00 PM

Yes. Pipe it all the way to the panel. Where in NJ?

jtcnj 09-20-2012 06:30 AM

Brick, Northern Ocean County.
What size and type pipe, 2 1/2" CPVC all the way, below 18" on the underground run?

Thanks again for the help

rjniles 09-20-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtcnj (Post 1013567)

What size and type pipe, 2 1/2" CPVC all the way, below 18" on the underground run?

PVC, CPVC is plumbing pipe.

electures 09-20-2012 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtcnj (Post 1013567)
Brick, Northern Ocean County.
What size and type pipe, 2 1/2" CPVC all the way, below 18" on the underground run?

Thanks again for the help

1 1/4" can take (4) #1 XHHW. Go with 2" PVC. It will make the pull easier and the material will cost less then 2 1/2".. 18" is the minimum depth. It depends on where the conduit is ran (under a driveway, etc..,). ALso, run a pair of 1" PVC for future phone/data/alarm.

jtcnj 09-24-2012 08:13 AM

Now a buddy tells me if I install electric in the garage it changes the degree of "usable space" on my property and my taxes will go up - a lot. :eek:

Would just running 2 12ga 20A circuits for a couple receptacles / lights off a tandem breaker at the house panel be different tax wise than the 100A sup-panel? I could still run the Mig welder and leave the Tig/Stick rig in the basement for now.

I will be adding the electrical sub-code permit to the permit package, which is almost ready to submit (my electrical drawing still needs doing).

Can someone define the typical differences? I know I get taxed on my rear deck as some kind of usable space, but not the same as finished rooms inside the house.

electures 09-24-2012 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtcnj (Post 1016301)
Now a buddy tells me if I install electric in the garage it changes the degree of "usable space" on my property and my taxes will go up - a lot. :eek:

Would just running 2 12ga 20A circuits for a couple receptacles / lights off a tandem breaker at the house panel be different tax wise than the 100A sup-panel? I could still run the Mig welder and leave the Tig/Stick rig in the basement for now.

I will be adding the electrical sub-code permit to the permit package, which is almost ready to submit (my electrical drawing still needs doing).

Can someone define the typical differences? I know I get taxed on my rear deck as some kind of usable space, but not the same as finished rooms inside the house.

When you file for the permit the tax office is notified of the capitol improvement. Your taxes will increase for the amount of the cost of the improvement. There is a line on the permit application for the cost of the improvement. Interestingly enough, people think that if they put down something like $200.00 for the cost of a 200A service (just an example) they are getting away with cheating the township out of tax revenue. The UCC states that the cost shall be based on fair market value of the work. As part of the plan review process the Subcode Official will determine if the cost is appropriate and if not will correct the dollar amount or reject the application and make the HO do it. I would routinely "correct" the $200.00 200A service change from $200.00 to $2000.00 because I know what I was charging when I did them.

You are already being taxed for the garage. The only increase would be for the improvement. The garage is taxed at a different rate then the dwelling area.

Hope this helps!!:thumbup:

jtcnj 09-24-2012 09:02 AM

Very helpful. I'm back on track with adding the 100A sub-panel.
Thanks.

I didn't clarify that I am in the drawings / permit stage for the garage itself. I won't have the funds for the electric just yet, so I planned to set the conduits in the slab on grade, include the electrical layout on my drawings and file for the elec sub-code with the building permit. I'm not sure if its just better to come up outside the slab into a pulling ell just above the sill plate.

Is this a good plan or no: should I add the elec permit app as an update to the permit package instead. I want to get a temp CO or the CO so I can start using the structure.

electures 09-24-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtcnj (Post 1016322)
Very helpful. I'm back on track with adding the 100A sub-panel.
Thanks.

I didn't clarify that I am in the drawings / permit stage for the garage itself. I won't have the funds for the electric just yet, so I planned to set the conduits in the slab on grade, include the electrical layout on my drawings and file for the elec sub-code with the building permit. I'm not sure if its just better to come up outside the slab into a box just above the sill plate.

Is this a good plan or no: should I add the elec permit app as an update to the permit package instead. I want to get a temp CO or the CO so I can start using the structure.

If the electrical is not on the permit, you won't be able to get an open trench inspection. Add the electrical now. You should be able to get a TCO without it being finfished as long as there are no electrical hazards. Plus by the time you get that far, you may be able to complete the electric.

Wiscbldr 09-24-2012 11:29 AM

If you have an existing padmount transformer on your property, or an overhead close by, you could consider tapping into that for a 2nd, completely seperate service.

Contact your local utility and find out what it would cost to run a completely seperate service for your detached garage. It would be a seperate meter, seperate bill, but that would at least allow you to install a 100A setup and not have any of it affect your regular house setup.

electures 09-24-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiscbldr (Post 1016402)
If you have an existing padmount transformer on your property, or an overhead close by, you could consider tapping into that for a 2nd, completely seperate service.

Contact your local utility and find out what it would cost to run a completely seperate service for your detached garage. It would be a seperate meter, seperate bill, but that would at least allow you to install a 100A setup and not have any of it affect your regular house setup.

If he adds a second service for the garage, he may be charged commercial rates.

frenchelectrican 09-25-2012 12:09 AM

I only have object to speak up I understand that you want to put a 100 amp " service " to the garage But the key issue I don't know this may affect or not but how big is your house?

Let me explain just real short et sweet the reason why due some case with very small homes I know they allready have 200 amp service and I done the load caluations and if the load demand caluations is under 100 amp you are fine with that part but once you pass that part it may change the " game " somehow what.,

Electures will have infomation reguarding in your state so he may know little more details if he want to provide the answer with it.

And the other thing I will throw this in the mix to reduce the headache go with 2 inch PVC conduit however please do get expanding sleeve so it will move up or down depending on the tempture when the frost hit so it will not rip it out off from the wall which I have see it from time to time.

(The bare mimuium require I used is 1.25 inch but normally used either 1.5 or 2 inch PVC's )

Merci,
Marc

jtcnj 09-30-2012 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiscbldr (Post 1016402)
If you have an existing padmount transformer on your property, or an overhead close by, you could consider tapping into that for a 2nd, completely seperate service.
.

The pole drop is on the same side as the house service, further still from the garage.

Whats the difference between a main breaker vs a main lugs load center? I need a disconnect (main breaker) for the detached building, yes?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved