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Old 07-04-2011, 01:13 AM   #16
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


The pump will be bonded.

The new two-speed Pentair pump will run at low-speed 99% of the time. High speed will only be used to prime the pump and never at the same time as the second Cleaner/Polaris pump. However I think it could run fine.

Pentair Pump is 115V 14.6 Amps on High speed , 4.7 Amps Low speed
Polaris Cleaner Pump is 230V, 12.8 Amps

The old pump was 230V 9.2 Amps and it ran with the Polaris fine.

All of the wires are 12 gauge.

Thanks again!

RoberTX

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Old 07-04-2011, 01:16 AM   #17
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


I think you should be fine as long you have proper size conductor however there is one guy he may comment little more in the moring so I will wait and see what he have to say due the codés between French and USA side is pretty simauir but slightly diffrent purpose so I will let this guy chime in the moring he will know more details if I did cover the base correct and the way I posted I used the USA side much as I can due the French Codés are stricter.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:06 AM   #18
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


You may not run a separate neutral wire. Neutral and hot must "travel" together from the panel.

You may not use the neutral of a different branch or a different circuit.

Incidentally once you are th inking of running a separate neutral you might as well run a 12-2 or 14 =-w cable as needed for the entire power feed.

If one of the wires of the 240 volt circuit is white and you don't need 240 volts you can convert that circuit to 120 by taking the white wire off the double braker and connecting it to the neutral bus bar in the panel.

Appliances, pumps, etc. are rated for the maximum amerage circuit they may be connected to. The instructions should tell you what the circuit requirements are. You may not connect a 15 or 20 amp rated pump (it may draw much less) to a 30 amp circuit even if you have lots of other things connected to the same circuit. Instead you need a subpanel with 20 amp breakers for subcircuits to feed the 20 amp pump and other 15 or 20 amp rated things. Things with common parallel prong plugs for common 120 volt wall receptacles are 15 amp rated things. You may plug in 15 amp rated things into a 12 gauge 20 amp circuit.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 07-04-2011 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:45 AM   #19
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
You may not run a separate neutral wire. Neutral and hot must "travel" together from the panel.

You may not use the neutral of a different branch or a different circuit.
But I am suggesting running a new neutral wire from the service panel along with the 240V wires. That is how I drew it in the schematic above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Incidentally once you are th inking of running a separate neutral you might as well run a 12-2 or 14 =-w cable as needed for the entire power feed.

If one of the wires of the 240 volt circuit is white and you don't need 240 volts you can convert that circuit to 120 by taking the white wire off the double braker and connecting it to the neutral bus bar in the panel.
The only white wire I have accessible right now is the one for the pool light. If you look at the schematic that shows my existing wiring, you will see that there are only 2 pairs wires coming into the timer box: Blue/Black with 240V and Red/White with 120V.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:25 PM   #20
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Allen.,

I understand you want to help the OP on this one and I did look at the oringal drawing { Post #4 } that is oringally wired for full 240 volts for both motours.

However there is a next drawing { Post #7 } and I did told the OP that drawing will not work in that fashon so he revised it to corrected one in post #9

Due that circuit for pump motours one pump is allready wired for 240 and the motour the OP is replacing is 120 volts so that why he have to make a new netural conductor for it. And I did mention to the OP when he pull new netural conductor it have to be the same size as the exsting conductor size there { There is a loophole that you can run " reduced netrual conductor size" but let not go there there is too much connries there }

I hope that clear up the confusing and I know you say keep the netural with that pump circuit however I did not get a chance to ask the OP was the pump motour hard wired or have cord with plug attachment so I will let the OP answer that question.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:25 PM   #21
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


The new pump will be hard wired (no plug). The old pump was also hard wired.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:32 PM   #22
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Are you sure the neutral wire has enough capacity
to carry the currant for the lights and pump ?
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:57 PM   #23
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


This post has gotten confusing with the multiple ideas I have come up with. Please disregard above schematics and reference below:

Existing wiring with old 240V pump installed:


Timer 1 and Timer 2 are mechanical timer DPST switches. On each timer, terminals 1 and 3 are LINE. Terminals 2 and 4 are LOAD. The motor [m] for each timer switch is powered by 240V. Timer 1 is for the Filter Pump (being replaced) and Timer 2 is for the Cleaner/Polaris Pump. The Thermostat powers on the Filter Pump when the outside temperature is below 34 degrees F. The timers are wired such that the Polaris cannot be turned on without the Filter Pump being on. My goal is to modify this wiring to replace the old 240V Filter Pump with my new 120V Filter Pump while retaining the same control functions.

This is my current proposed solution for adding a neutral wire to power the new 120V Pentair Dual-Speed Pump while retaining existing control functions:


The above schematic shows the Filter Pump 120V switched by Timer 1. The 120V Filter Pump Neutral wire is hard wired to the pump (not switched). The thermostat also can apply 120V to the pump HOT lead. Note that this leaves the existing Pool Light circuit alone.

Notes:


The new two-speed Pentair pump will run at low-speed 99% of the time. High speed will only be used to prime the pump and never at the same time as the second Cleaner/Polaris pump.

Pentair Pump is 115V 14.6 Amps on High speed , 4.7 Amps Low speed
Polaris/Cleaner Pump is 230V, 12.8 Amps

The old Filter Pump was 230V 9.2 Amps and it ran with the Polaris fine.

All of the wires are 12 gauge.

The Timers are both double pole single throw (DPST) switches. Terminals 1 and 3 are LINE. Terminals 2 and 4 are LOAD.

Last edited by RoberTX; 07-04-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:23 AM   #24
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


I agree with the French Fry Guy.
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:44 AM   #25
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Bob, Marc,

Thank you for your replies.

Are you both saying that it is safe/acceptable to wire the new 120V pump per my schematic in post #23? : 2 #12 wires from one double pole 30 amp circuit breaker plus one #12 neutral wire to power both the pumps?
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:38 AM   #26
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoberTX View Post
Bob, Marc,

Thank you for your replies.

Are you both saying that it is safe/acceptable to wire the new 120V pump per my schematic in post #23? : 2 #12 wires from one double pole 30 amp circuit breaker plus one #12 neutral wire to power both the pumps?
Oui .,

You will be fine with that due there is a specal code that do address the motour useage { it will be in Art 430 et 440 } so you will have no issue with this one.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:43 AM   #27
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Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
Are you sure the neutral wire has enough capacity
to carry the currant for the lights and pump ?
I did told the OP about the netural conductor and in USA code we keep the pump seperated from the pool luminaire { this part is in the NEC codé }

I do know how strict with your pool set up in your country but I know in France it is stricter somehow what depending on how you set it up.

Merci,
Marc

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