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-   -   Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/power-120v-pump-240v-circuit-109600/)

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:06 PM

Power 120V Pump from a 240V circuit
 
UPDATE: Jump to post #23 to see correct schematic for EXISTING WIRING and PROPOSED WIRING CHANGE.

Hi,

I have a 120V pool pump (electric motor) that I am using to replace a 240V pump. The new pump draws 14.6 Amps maximum.

In the electrical box, there is existing wiring for 240V to the pump and there is also a neutral wire that powers a 400 Watt pool light. The hot wire to the pool light is protected by a 20 Amp circuit breaker. There is also a GFCI protecting the pool light.

-DELETED-

The new 120V pump specifies to use 12 gauge wiring for wire lengths up to 50 feet. The neutral wire from the service panel to the electrical box is 15 feet. Then it would tee to the pump (5 feet) and to the pool light (50 feet).

What is the best way to get 120V to the new pump? Should I run a new neutral, using the existing Hot wire from the 240V circuit breaker? Or do I have to run a brand new 120V circuit for this pump? Running a brand new circuit has two major drawbacks. I won't be able to use my existing 240V time switch and I won't be able to slave my pool cleaner (Polaris) booster pump timer to it. I could still wire the timer clock motors to 240V and use them. But it would be tricky to prevent the Polaris/Cleaner pump from turning on without the filter pump being on.

This is a lot to describe in words, so I will try and post a schematic of the existing wiring.

Thanks,
RoberTX

DannyT 07-03-2011 11:11 PM

a lot of pumps can be wired for 110 or 220. did you check the specs for the new one usually its on the inside cover over the wiring connections besides in the instructions.
at 120 it will use twice the amps then at 220.

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:15 PM

I am positive my new pump only runs with 120V. It is a Pentair Whisperflo Dual Speed WFDS-24

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:21 PM

Existing Wiring
 
This is the existing wiring - 230V pump used in this installation.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5...252520pump.jpg

The yellow DPST box is a manually controlled double-throw-single-throw switch to remove all 240V power. The power goes from the manual DPST to the timers

The 1,2,3,4 yellow boxes are the terminals for two DPST 240V time switches. When a switch is ON, LINE connections 1 and 3are connected to 2 and 4. The cleaner (Polaris) pump is slaved to the filter pump.

The top right blue shaded box is my main service panel. The left blue shaded are is an electric box that houses the two timers and wiring between the service panel and the pool equipment.

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:26 PM

Here is what I asked about in the original post - connect one of the old 240V pump wires to neutral to supply 120V to the new pump. This would be very easy to do and it would allow me to use my existing timers and still be able to slave the cleaner pump to the first pump.

What do the experts (anyone with more experience than me) think about this? I'm definitely not sure enough about it to try it yet! Please see my concerns in the original post.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4...dea%252521.jpg

Thanks,
RoberTX

frenchelectrican 07-03-2011 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoberTX (Post 679319)
I am positive my new pump only runs with 120V. It is a Pentair Whisperflo Dual Speed WFDS-24

That kinda odd I did look up website about this pump and it did stated 240 volts and can you double check the nameplate again to make sure you see word say " VOLTS " it will stated either 120 volts or 120-240 or 240 volts.

And also what horsepower rating this pump motour is ?

Also if you are aware with modern NEC code all the pool pumps either on 120 volts or 240 volts it have to be GFCI protected.

Most pool pump I have run into genrally are wired for 240 volts when you get above 1 Horsepower rating the 3/4 HP rating can be either way.

Merci,
Marc

frenchelectrican 07-03-2011 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoberTX (Post 679327)
Here is what I asked about in the original post - connect one of the old 240V pump wires to neutral to supply 120V to the new pump. This would be very easy to do and it would allow me to use my existing timers and still be able to slave the cleaner pump to the first pump.

What do the experts (anyone with more experience than me) think about this? I'm definitely not sure enough about it to try it yet! Please see my concerns in the original post.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2...20proposed.jpg

Thanks,
RoberTX

What you suggest on this one it will NOT work if you hook up in that way as you posted in the photo one thing I will say for sure you will trip the GFCI as soon the pump kick on.

Merci,
Marc

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:40 PM

Thank you for the replies. The WFDS-24 pump is 115V only. Here is Pentair's website:

http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-pro/...e-pump-193.htm

I thought the GFCI would trip, that was my biggest concern

If I were to run a new Neutral wire from the service panel to the motor would that be acceptable? Would you recommend 10 gauge or 12 gauge?

Thanks,
RoberTX

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:49 PM

Here is a picture showing a new neutral wire ran from the service panel.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...e%252520ok.jpg

Is this acceptable?

Thanks,
RoberTX

frenchelectrican 07-03-2011 11:50 PM

see below

frenchelectrican 07-03-2011 11:55 PM

Ahh ok before I can comment more on this one was the old pump did have two speed or not due the diagram you posted here that is wired for single speed so if you do need two speed function you will need addtional connections to order to get second speed running { I think cleaning mode will run in high speed while normal operation will run in low speed unless it is reversed as I stated.,, }

You will have to bring seperated netural for the pump motour you can NOT tap to the lighting circuit that is complety off limit for safety issue.

Note: as soon I posted I did see updated drawing so that is good however you will need two pole GFCI breaker to handle both 120 volt motour et 240 volt motour.

Merci,
Marc

RoberTX 07-03-2011 11:57 PM

You are correct. This is a two speed pump. But the pump has a switch mounted on the back of the motor for selecting Hi / Lo speed. So only one power wire goes to the switch. The switch and wiring for the two speeds is not shown because it is part of the pump assembly.

So there are no other issues if I run a separate neutral and wire as above? The 240V 30 A circuit breaker and 12 AWG wiring is all adequate and safe? I think it should function just fine.

Any more input is greatly appreciated! I am not taking this 'amateur electrician' job lightly!

Thanks,
RoberTX

RoberTX 07-04-2011 12:00 AM

So I cannot use the existing 30 Amp 2 pole circuit breaker for both the 120V pump and the 240V pump?

frenchelectrican 07-04-2011 12:02 AM

Oui there is other thing is that make sure you have good bonding wire that typically #6 bare copper if the old pump did have it then it will be simauir loction to rehook the bonding wire and make sure the #6 conductor is clean before you hook it up to the motour.

What conductor size you have in there now due you mention to moi the 30 amp breaker as long it is hard wired and have overload protection at the motour it is fine however if not then you will have to downsize the breaker to 20 or 25 amp depending on what the other pump motour size is and what the current drawage as well.

Merci,
Marc

frenchelectrican 07-04-2011 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoberTX (Post 679341)
So I cannot use the existing 30 Amp 2 pole circuit breaker for both the 120V pump and the 240V pump?

Oui you can if both pump drawage do not excess 24 amps you are fine I allready out the 120 volts however need one more info on the exsting 240 volt motour how many amp or HP rating on the other motour to make sure so you can keep the exsting breaker otherwise you will have to get new GFCI breaker { this is a current code requirement }

Merci,
Marc


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