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-   -   Is this possible?modern tec vs old elctric (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/possible-modern-tec-vs-old-elctric-30644/)

Rush2112 10-25-2008 07:14 PM

Is this possible?modern tec vs old elctric
 
I have a very old fuse panel, and I am trying to figure things out.
There are a total of 8 fuses. A row of 4, then below 4 more (2 over 2)

Two of the bottom ones are marked "220 pump". (please be understanding of my question) If the panel is 120v, how does 2 /220 pumps add up?

A total hypothetical question: Is it possible to run modern appliance/devices on such an old system?
I don't mean anything fancy...just the basic's on a 15 amp fuse?
One fuse is marked "kitchen".
In the kitchen, there is a washer/(gas)dryer, fridge, (gas)oven, water softer, and small kitchen devices.

Can 220 pump run on a 15 amp fuse?
How much could run on a 15 amp fuse>

Thank you

joed 10-25-2008 08:58 PM

The fuse panel has no affect on the electricity delivered to your house it is still 120/240volts. Without getting too techinical, your is delivered 240 volts with a tap in the center. Either line of the 240 volts to the center tap gives 120 volts. If you only want 240 volts then you only use the two main lines without the center tap.
A 240 device uses two fuses (or breakers). One on each hot line.
A 220 pump(also refered as 240 volt) could run off two 15 amp fuses if the pump is small enough to draw less then 15 amps.

electro 10-25-2008 09:49 PM

Coming in you have two hots and one neutral . Each hot is 110 volts . A 110 device will use one hot and a neutral . A 220 device will use two 110 hots , one from each line coming in . A ground wire would be needed if you run any extra circuits . If you have a fuse box , I would think it was installed before grounds were required .

Rush2112 10-25-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electro (Post 176811)
Coming in you have two hots and one neutral . Each hot is 110 volts . A 110 device will use one hot and a neutral . A 220 device will use two 110 hots , one from each line coming in . A ground wire would be needed if you run any extra circuits . If you have a fuse box , I would think it was installed before grounds were required .

So does this explain why 2 of the fuses were marked 22o pump?
The fuse box is crazy old, I do not know about the ground. I see there is a rod coming outside that is wrapped around a pole in the ground.
I also know that NONE of the outlets in the home are grounded....and no GFI (I think that is what they are called). not even in the bathroom, or the kitchen?
Would the gas dryer and gas stove need to be on a separate circuit? they are not not they are all Just all plugged into the regular wall outlet into the fuse marked "Kitchen". Only the furnace has its own.
I am trying to determine if this is all OK, and up to code, or do i need an electrician.
Thanks for any help you can provide.

rgsgww 10-25-2008 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rush2112 (Post 176813)
Would the gas dryer and gas stove need to be on a separate circuit? they are not not they are all Just all plugged into the regular wall outlet into the fuse marked "Kitchen". Only the furnace has its own.
I am trying to determine if this is all OK, and up to code, or do i need an electrician.
Thanks for any help you can provide.

I remember you saying the kitchen outlets were on a 30 amp breaker, correct? If so, that needs to be corrected. The wiring probably only handles 15 amps.

Rush2112 10-26-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgsgww (Post 176818)
I remember you saying the kitchen outlets were on a 30 amp breaker, correct? If so, that needs to be corrected. The wiring probably only handles 15 amps.

YES. All 8 of them have 30amp fuses.
I am not sure if I mentioned they are the"screw in type" fuses?
Im sorry for all the questions....but the bottom 4 fuses, marked :garage" "furnace" and the two "220 pump" should those also be a 15 amp?
I am sooooo confused. Thank you thank you! For (all) of your help!

davitk 10-26-2008 02:22 PM

If you're running 30A fuses on everything, you have problems and it's time to hire a consulting electrician. Old wiring that has been over-fused (running too many amps on too small a wire) becomes brittle from being over heated, and from what you have said I would consider everything to be suspect; at the very least buy yourself some peace of mind by having the system inspected.

SD515 10-26-2008 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davitk (Post 177036)
If you're running 30A fuses on everything, you have problems and it's time to hire a consulting electrician. Old wiring that has been over-fused (running too many amps on too small a wire) becomes brittle from being over heated, and from what you have said I would consider everything to be suspect; at the very least buy yourself some peace of mind by having the system inspected.

I couldn't agree more.

InPhase277 10-26-2008 05:05 PM

Nothing wrong with a fuse box, per se. The biggest problem is the ability to overfuse and lack of grounds in the branch circuits. Modern code requires the kitchen be served by at least two receptacle circuits, protected by GFCIs. The laundry needs a circuit. The bath needs it's own circuit, GFCI protected. You should just go with a full service upgrade, at least. It would be nice to rewire everything, but that isn't always affordable.

In the area I work in Alabama, we have these incredibly old 60 amp services, serving a 4, 6, 8 or 12 fuse panel. For customers on a budget, I have installed a new service and 200 A breaker panel, then fed the old fuse box from a breaker in the new panel, with new cable of course. That way, I don't have to mess with the old wiring, and can add new circuits in locations where they want them. I always put the type S fuse adapters in the old box, to limit the fuse size to 15 or 20 amps.

Rush2112 10-27-2008 10:32 AM

Thank you for your help. I am going to contact an electrician :)

But...just one quick question...would it have even been possible to run on these appliances on a 15 amp fuse? (Kitchen

I am curious if it would have even been possible?

Thanks for all your help.

J. V. 10-27-2008 10:50 AM

Sure. At one time 15 or 20 amp was all that was needed. If your wire is #12 it is good for 20 amp. Chances are it is #14/2. The addition of the dishwasher and any other appliances added over the years had caused the fuses to be change to larger sizes (amps). This very common and dangerous. I found my Mother-Inlaw's panel with all 30 amp screw in fuses, just like you. I replaced the service and put all the small branch circuits on 15 amp breakers. She has to reset breakers occasionally until I can upgrade all the circuits in the house.

Now, I know she has the correct protection for the size wire she has. I can sleep better even though she thinks I messed up the job because the breaker trips in the kitchen when she is using to many appliances at once.


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