Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-12-2010, 09:25 AM   #1
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Share |
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Well, this is an area where I need the help of the experts.

I've added a long extension to make a breakfast bar area--effectively a continuation of the kitchen counter. I have added a old work box at the end for a new GFI 20a double outlet (run #3 for the kitchen), but I need to add an outlet midpoint between the wall and the rest of the kitchen counter to meet the 4' rule (Thanks Will for the walk through!).

I physically could not add a new box above the counter when the wall was open because of solid framing behind--a combination of low window and doubled up 2x in the wall.

I found what seems to be the solution with this pop-up box from LEW--it is their PUP-CT-BK (black) or PUP-CT-SS for stainless. This is UL-approved to meet NEMA requirements.
http://www.lewelectric.com/cfm/comm_pufp.cfm (first two in list)

I also see mention on another thread for this box that some inspectors will not approve this as the first box in a GFI run.

Assume that I install the pop-up on the counter-top surface:

1.Can I wire from the existing counter end box attached to the underside of the counter?

Plan A would be to bring the BX out of the side or bottom of the new double box.
Run it behind end cabinet, physically attach to underside of counter top tight to the wall.
Would I use BX or? Can I use NM instead, or would this be considered exposed?
Just to confuse matters, for some reason, the install instructions I have read from APLUSSupply speak of using conduit: http://www.aplussupply.com/lew-floor-boxes/pufp.htm and see the link labeled "Instructions")

Then the new wall outlet becomes first in string--GFCI on first outlet and surface mounted box is last in chain, so I have avoided the problem of it being first in string.

Plan B would be to snake a new circuit up through the wall cavity, exiting a little to the left of where the box would sit. Then it is first in string...

If I adopt Plan B, would I need to use BX or could I use NM?

(reason for asking is that I have the most god-awful footing/wall cavity situation to get wires up from the crawl, that pulling a new BX may cause me to lose it completely and burn the place down.)

Cheers,
Dean
Attached Images
 

Last edited by paredown; 03-12-2010 at 10:05 AM.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 09:33 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Is this a peninsula ? Codes are different for a peninsula
They only require (1) receptacle to serve the peninsula
Do you have a pic of the area ?


.
.
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 09:48 AM   #3
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,675
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


I agree with Dave. IF you are intending to do this you might consider using the Lew PUFP-CT-SS or PUFP-CT-BK on a countertop. The round ones are intended for floor installation and will require a pvc floor box which is quite large.
There are other alternatives.

Last edited by brric; 03-12-2010 at 09:51 AM.
brric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 10:39 AM   #4
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Thanks guys--I posted the right picture for the plug. I was a little distracted and grabbed the wrong one.

Here is a very rough drawing of the kitchen area, extracted from a larger drawing, so elements like the walls did not transfer over.

back of peninsula is bulked up to be even with the cabinet faces of area in nook; end cabinet on peninsula is not as wide as shown.

GFI 1 (as labeled) is circuit for short counter between fridge and oven; GFI-2 includes outlets on either side of cooktop and at end of peninsula.

These two feed from one subpanel.

GF-3 is the circuit in question--duplex outlet is in wall at RH end, & I've tried to show about where the counter top plug would be installed.

I didn't find other alternatives...

Thanks,
Dean
Attached Thumbnails
Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle-kitchenext.jpg  

Last edited by paredown; 03-12-2010 at 12:57 PM.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 10:53 AM   #5
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,675
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by paredown View Post
Thanks guys--I posted the right picture for the plug. I was a little distracted and grabbed the wrong one.

Here is a very rough drawing of the kitchen area, extracted from a larger drawing, so elements like the walls did not transfer over.

back of peninsula is bulked up to be even with the cabinet faces of area in nook; end cabinet on peninsula is not as wide as shown.

GFI 1 (as labeled) is circuit for short counter between fridge and oven; GFI-2 includes outlets on either side of cooktop and at end of peninsula.

These two feed from one subpanel.

GF-3 is the circuit in question--duplex outlet is in wall at RH end, & I've tried to show about where the counter top plug would be installed.

I didn't find other alternatives...

Thanks,
Dean
I'm confused. Don't see GF-3. Are you talking about the 7'9" area at the lower right?
brric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #6
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


oops--yes that is the area. I think it didn't get picked up when I cut the drawing..

Edit: now posted a slightly better version

Last edited by paredown; 03-12-2010 at 01:45 PM.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:08 AM   #7
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,675
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


So, That area is all counter space with no receptacles or is there a receptacle as drawn on the right?
brric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:09 AM   #8
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,505
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


If I am reading your drawing right, I would say that new counter is outside of the kitchen area and that the "4' rule" no longer applies. You should be OK with just the receptacle at the end on the counter.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:23 AM   #9
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
So, That area is all counter space with no receptacles or is there a receptacle as drawn on the right?
Should be clearer now--Counter top is continuous from end of peninsula.

Yes the receptacle already roughed in on the right. This the duplex box that I would tap into if I had to add the CT receptacle.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:25 AM   #10
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
If I am reading your drawing right, I would say that new counter is outside of the kitchen area and that the "4' rule" no longer applies. You should be OK with just the receptacle at the end on the counter.
I wondered about that too--but the electrician who walked through thought I would need to meet the 4' rule. It is a separate alcove (it used to be the laundry area) but the flooring, countertops and cabinets all carry through from the kitchen proper.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Are you alternating the circuits/outlets between areas ?
For instance where you have GFCI-1 you have 2 outlets
I would have one outlet on one circuit, 2nd outlet on another circuit

Same thing for GFCI-2 area
I would have another outlet on the short wall that leads to the 7' 9" area
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2010, 11:58 AM   #12
No pain, no gain!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 53
Default

Pop-up Kitchen Counter Receptacle


Sorry that's not really a wall--solid stacked 2x behind since it's a bearing wall (not really there but Viso has a mind of its own about where it wants to put the anchor point for objects.) Window runs from end to end.

For better or worse, GF-1, GF-2 and GF-3 are each separate branch circuits. Because I'm working with old panels, I have limited breaker spots, and have already had to split them up between existing subpanels to make everything fit.

Edit: thought about this & I understand the idea of splitting the two circuits so that each counter has one plug from each--didn't think to do that initially.

The irony here is that the whole kitchen used to have one wall outlet that was on a shared circuit with the hood fan, a light circuit, the 120 stove circuit etc.

Last edited by paredown; 03-12-2010 at 12:58 PM.
paredown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ideas Regarding Kitchen Remodeling Kristal Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 2 12-20-2009 09:44 AM
Receptacle in kitchen island raised counter backspash interplexr Electrical 1 05-16-2009 06:06 AM
Granite tile as a kitchen counter? fun4me Building & Construction 1 04-13-2009 04:55 PM
Do I need a new box? pcampbell Electrical 20 01-07-2009 06:16 PM
Kitchen Counter Back-Splash satchmo Remodeling 9 06-25-2007 09:33 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.