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Old 08-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #16
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And how many pool jobs are lost by $50?
Most of the pools I do have two pumps... that's 100 dollars.

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Old 08-10-2012, 04:10 PM   #17
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And if someone has a pool that has multiple pumps of 1-1/2 to 2 HP I don't think the cost of a few GFI breakers is going to matter.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:12 PM   #18
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And if someone has a pool that has multiple pumps of 1-1/2 to 2 HP I don't think the cost of a few GFI breakers is going to matter.
In a bidding war that does not even include the owner but the pool contractor, 100 dollars is a lot.... Besides, why install something that is not needed or required?
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #19
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I'm sorry, using a 25A breaker just to get by the GFI requirement is pretty hack if you ask me.
And I think installing a disposal and DW on the same circuit is hack. But that is another discussion.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:36 PM   #20
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In a bidding war that does not even include the owner but the pool contractor, 100 dollars is a lot.... Besides, why install something that is not needed or required?
What about the contractor who wires a hundred pools in a year. Now we are talking over $5000. Code is code. If somebody disagrees submit a code change proposal which you won't find in the back of the 1500 pg book.
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #21
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I'm sorry, using a 25A breaker just to get by the GFI requirement is pretty hack if you ask me.
Why? Its perfectly legit... Petey, with that logic, am I a hack because Im on the 2005 and hardwire pumps do not require GFCI protection regardless of breaker size?
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:27 PM   #22
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Why? Its perfectly legit... Petey, with that logic, am I a hack because Im on the 2005 and hardwire pumps do not require GFCI protection regardless of breaker size?
Nope that is following the minimum safety of the enforced code cycle. However, there is also the intent of the NEC to improve human safety as we move forward and is the intent of the language for gfci on pool pump motors. Those pumps do not require 25 amp breakers on dedicated branch circuits. To intentionally seek a loop hole in the NEC at the expense of human safety isn't IMO what the NEC would expect of qualified electricians....nor a customer for that matter.
It's true that an inspector cannot fail it, but it is the idea that you would know why that 25 amp breaker was installed ... to save dollars. Your logic is to save a buck to get a bid by using an unnecessary circuit breaker and probably not inform the customer why you were making that design change. I wonder what the customer would want ...
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:39 PM   #23
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so offer the customer the option of GFI's at $100 a pop and see how badly he wants them.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:44 PM   #24
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Nope that is following the minimum safety of the enforced code cycle. However, there is also the intent of the NEC to improve human safety as we move forward and is the intent of the language for gfci on pool pump motors. Those pumps do not require 25 amp breakers on dedicated branch circuits. To intentionally seek a loop hole in the NEC at the expense of human safety isn't IMO what the NEC would expect of qualified electricians....nor a customer for that matter.
It's true that an inspector cannot fail it, but it is the idea that you would know why that 25 amp breaker was installed ... to save dollars. Your logic is to save a buck to get a bid by using an unnecessary circuit breaker and probably not inform the customer why you were making that design change. I wonder what the customer would want ...
This is where I SHALL disagree, an EGC trumps a GFCI every time, so with a hard wired pump, I see no issue at all, and the NEC agrees with this... my logic is that I install a LEGAL install... I dont need to do more because of an opinion. GFCI logic is based on money and lobbyists...
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by stubie

Nope that is following the minimum safety of the enforced code cycle. However, there is also the intent of the NEC to improve human safety as we move forward and is the intent of the language for gfci on pool pump motors. Those pumps do not require 25 amp breakers on dedicated branch circuits. To intentionally seek a loop hole in the NEC at the expense of human safety isn't IMO what the NEC would expect of qualified electricians....nor a customer for that matter.
It's true that an inspector cannot fail it, but it is the idea that you would know why that 25 amp breaker was installed ... to save dollars. Your logic is to save a buck to get a bid by using an unnecessary circuit breaker and probably not inform the customer why you were making that design change. I wonder what the customer would want ...
The customer will want a compliant installation. There is no loop hole. The NEC is clearly written. If you disagree state the code section. That's easy enough.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:39 PM   #26
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The customer will want a compliant installation. There is no loop hole. The NEC is clearly written. If you disagree state the code section. That's easy enough.
Why is this so hard for electricians to comprehend? They choose opinion over code... As if the way they wire is supposedly better? For who though, the customers wallet or their own ego?

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Old 08-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #27
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Why is this so hard for electricians to comprehend? They choose opinion over code... As if the way they wire is supposedly better?
It not that hard to comprehend at all due I am used to French electric codes they are genrally little stricter than NEC.

Oh BTW Our swimming pool pumps all of them have to be on RCD ( GFCI ) no matter if single or triphase motour.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:50 PM   #28
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It not that hard to comprehend at all due I am used to French electric codes they are genrally little stricter than NEC.

Oh BTW Our swimming pool pumps all of them have to be on RCD ( GFCI ) no matter if single or triphase motour.

Merci,
Marc

But where does the " is it really better logic" come into play? It is a legit install, and perfectly safe.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:53 PM   #29
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code is bare minimum safety wise, i don't see an issue with wanting better than the bare minimum. I give the option to everyone i do work for that they can do it one way and have it cost less or they can spend a little more and have something better than the minimum.

Our code states that all pool equipment has to be wired with gfci protection no matter the motor size, It also has to be permanently wired, so no plugin motors.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:55 PM   #30
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code is bare minimum safety wise, i don't see an issue with wanting better than the bare minimum. I give the option to everyone i do work for that they can do it one way and have it cost less or they can spend a little more and have something better than the minimum.
I disagree with that logic, you have a hard wired pump with a EGC, How is a GFCI better than THAT?

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