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Old 08-09-2012, 09:20 PM   #1
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Pool 100Amp Subpanel


Live in California... Pool and backyard remodel

Running a new 100Amp line from the main electrical house box that is 200amp to the new Hayward ProLogic Pool sub panel for the pool equipment. Is that #2 wire or #4?

The pool installers are telling me that they need 50 amps for the 3 pumps, 2 pool lights and gas heater that I have.

The reason that I'm running 100amps to the sub panel and only using 50amps for the pool is because there is electrical going to the overhang and backyard that can be controlled by a remote that talks to the ProLogic sub panel.

I have a overhang/BBQ area that has 17Amps for the refer and BBQ, a water feature which is about 15-20 amps, 2 ceiling fans for the overhang, low-voltage lights for the overhang, low-voltage landscaping lights for the backyard only. I think that is about it.

Inspector is telling me that I need a GFCI at the sub panel. Is this a 100amp GFCI prior to the sub panel being wired? Or does each piece of equipment need a GFCI?

I am having a licensed electrical contractor do this, but I'm just trying to do my homework because some of them are not knowledgeable about pool wiring...
(BTW, I had a licensed contractor out yesterday, to give me a bid and he said that they didn't make a 100amp GFCI, which of course I did see on the internet, not using him!!)

Last edited by Lcarey; 08-10-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:21 AM   #2
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Pool 100Amp Subpanel


I think he's talking about a gfci receptacle right at the panel.
Others will chime in soon if I'm mistaken though.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:05 AM   #3
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Can't speak for California code requirements, but the NEC does not require gfi protection for the panel main. The motors may or may of require gfi protection. Receptacles and pool lights will require gfi. What are the specs for the motors?
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
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Pool 100Amp Subpanel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evstarr View Post
I think he's talking about a gfci receptacle right at the panel.
This is also not a requirement.
electures' reply is dead on, other than that the pool motors will definitely require GFI protection.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
This is also not a requirement.
electures' reply is dead on, other than that the pool motors will definitely require GFI protection.
Where in the NEC does it require all pool motors to be gfi protected?
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:29 PM   #6
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Where in the NEC does it require all pool motors to be gfi protected?
680.21(C) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors connected to single-phase, 120 volt through 240 volt branch circuits, rated 15 or 20 amperes, whether by receptacle or by direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

OK, I am not completely correct here. A 30A 480V motor would not need GFI protection.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
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Pool 100Amp Subpanel


100 amps is considered a 2 gauge wire, however you may just want to make it a 0 gauge wire since then you will always have the option of adding more power (amps) outside if you chose to add/ replace lighting, appliances, etc. As for the GFCI, i believe the inspector might be trying to say that you need a GFCI breaker on the POOL applications (by code), however i am unsure, so i would call and ask befor paying for the electrician and finding out it was done wrong.

Good luck with your project!
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
680.21(C) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors connected to single-phase, 120 volt through 240 volt branch circuits, rated 15 or 20 amperes, whether by receptacle or by direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

OK, I am not completely correct here. A 30A 480V motor would not need GFI protection.
And neither would a 1 hp 120v motor on a 25a breaker.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:35 PM   #9
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And neither would a 1 hp 120v motor on a 25a breaker.
Bottom line is 99% of residential pool motors are on a 120 or 240v, 15 or 20A circuit.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:51 PM   #10
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Pool 100Amp Subpanel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Bottom line is 99% of residential pool motors are on a 120 or 240v, 15 or 20A circuit.
Not really, a lot of contractors are using 25 amp breakers to eliminate the GFCi requirement.... Im on the 2005, so its a moot point since I hardwire my pumps... But most of the pumps I do are in the 1 1/2 and 2 HP range, so those get hardwired with a 25 amp breaker, non GFCI....

Most receptacles only carry a HP rating of 1/2 HP for 15 amp, 1 HP for 20 amp, so you have to watch that fact.... Im betting there are a lot of receptacles installed on pumps larger than 1 HP rating...
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Bottom line is 99% of residential pool motors are on a 120 or 240v, 15 or 20A circuit.
Agreed. But if a contractor chooses to install a 1 hp 120v pool motor on a 25a breaker (and can be as high as a 40a breaker), it does not require gfi protection and the inspector can't fail it ( barring local amendments). I, as the electrical inspector, do not have the luxury of picking and choosing how the NEC is enforced. Bottom line is not all pool motors require gfi protection.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

Not really, a lot of contractors are using 25 amp breakers to eliminate the GFCi requirement.... Im on the 2005, so its a moot point since I hardwire my pumps... But most of the pumps I do are in the 1 1/2 and 2 HP range, so those get hardwired with a 25 amp breaker, non GFCI....

Most receptacles only carry a HP rating of 1/2 HP for 15 amp, 1 HP for 20 amp, so you have to watch that fact.... Im betting there are a lot of receptacles installed on pumps larger than 1 HP rating...
And by eliminating the gfi the contractor can save $50 which goes towards profit while still maintaining compliance.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:59 PM   #13
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And by eliminating the gfi the contractor can save $50 which goes towards profit while still maintaining compliance.
Exactly!
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

Exactly!
And how many pool jobs are lost by $50?
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #15
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I'm sorry, using a 25A breaker just to get by the GFI requirement is pretty hack if you ask me.
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