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Old 07-30-2013, 12:36 AM   #16
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When I told the town inspector that the electricians I spoke to told me they don't usually pull permits for "small jobs", he said that is a clear violation and said if he were around town and saw one of their trucks/vans at a spot where a permit was not pulled, he would take issue. He also basically said don't want/need to know if I am doing unpermitted work on my own house.

Personally I think its wrong that I cannot pull a permit as a homeowner to work on my own house. They could easily stipulate that a licensed electrician must clean up any "mess" that I make, and have it inspected by a licensed electrician before they come out to do their own inspection...at this point, I think best to just go unpermitted, as no electrician in his right mind would pull a permit so I could do the work. I found another guy who works $40-50/hr., he comes well recommended from a very reputable friend, has 12 yrs. experience, is working toward the education credit hours requirement to get his journeyman. I plan to have him help/show me the right way to do some of the trickier/higher risk stuff, and the rest I will do on my own and have him take a look at. Oh well, so much for my fully-permitted dream.

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Old 07-30-2013, 01:04 AM   #17
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Your post makes no sense. Only licensed electricians can pull an electrical permit, the inspector's office said you need one, yet you contend one is not required by law? I'd get a bit more clarification.

Just FYI, this might be a good opportunity to learn some new skills. Nothing you want to do is all that difficult. The issue of unpermitted work when selling a house is overblown - in more than 40 years and owning ten houses, it has never once been an issue.
Good to know you haven't had an issue selling a home with unpermitted work disclosed (I'm assuming any such work was disclosed). The whole point of me doing my own work is to learn and gain valuable experience; I have a proper respect for any work I would do.

The rules are quite clear to me at this point; MA state law says I can do whatever I want as a homeowner to my own house as far as electrical goes (at least for the kind of work I want to do). AHJ, my town, acknowledges state law but stipulates a licensed electrician to pull any permit. Just have to roll with it at this point. Thanks for all the input everyone.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:51 AM   #18
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Good to know you haven't had an issue selling a home with unpermitted work disclosed (I'm assuming any such work was disclosed). The whole point of me doing my own work is to learn and gain valuable experience; I have a proper respect for any work I would do.
None of the disclosure forms I've ever filled out has asked about unpermitted work of any kind. And, in my case at least, unpermitted does not mean non-code-compliant. It means I didn't want to jump through a bunch of hoops and spend more on a permit than on the materials for the job, just to add some outlets in my garage.

My wife and I built our current house almost entirely by ourselves (everything but foundation, HVAC, and roof). Of course, there's no way we could've gotten away without a permit for that. Didn't fail a single inspection. But the kicker was when I had to get another permit and inspection for my pre-manufactured Amish garden shed that just sits on the ground. No electricity, no water, no nothing. Tell me that $78 permit wasn't just a revenue generator for the county.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:16 AM   #19
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The comment about different inspectors saying different things was certainly the case for me last year when I installed the new service. One was an out of town contract inspector service fill in for a regular on vacation or something. Lucky for me they kept their squabble between themselves and left me out of it.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
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We have permit requirements, but there is no inspection requirement. All that's required is a one-line description of the work. Now that is a revenue generator - and a "to-do" list for the assessor to come look at any improvements.

County to the east has no permit or inspection requirements at all.

Rural 'merica for the win.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #21
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Are you in mass?
NY, but the rules are the same, permits required on everything.

I had a friend who did his own electrical without knowing code; stuff was a real mess. But he sold his house three years ago for a good price without anyone questioning it.
OTOH, my house is for sale. First sale failed at inspection because work done in 1982 didn't meet current code, and I wasn't about to pay to have the house rewired for no particular reason. So results aren't uniform.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:43 AM   #22
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OP, what town are you in? i am in Medway, MA and home owners can pull their own permits for work besides plumbing which requires a licensed plumber.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #23
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Well now that you have drawn attention to yourself with the inspector, I guess you will be pulling a permit, right?
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:00 PM   #24
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OP, what town are you in? i am in Medway, MA and home owners can pull their own permits for work besides plumbing which requires a licensed plumber.
This guy gets it. As a home owner you better make sure you do it right cause if not you will not pass inspection. Then you will have to hire an electrician to fix it and they always charge way more to fix other peoples problems.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:54 AM   #25
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And furthermore, hardly anyone ever gets in trouble for not pulling one. It's about the equivalent of driving 56 in a 55.
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That's the thing, unless he is expecting the "wiring police" to come pounding on his door at 4 am demanding to be let in to xray examine all his wires in the walls and ceilings, no one is going to have a clue that a new circuit was put in, or all new wiring was done 6 months ago, done by a previous home owner 5 years ago, done 20 years ago by the owner before that one, or done 2 years ago.

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Old 07-31-2013, 12:57 AM   #26
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Well now that you have drawn attention to yourself with the inspector, I guess you will be pulling a permit, right?

Now he opened a can of worms!
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:37 AM   #27
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That's the thing, unless he is expecting the "wiring police" to come pounding on his door at 4 am demanding to be let in to xray examine all his wires in the walls and ceilings, no one is going to have a clue that a new circuit was put in, or all new wiring was done 6 months ago, done by a previous home owner 5 years ago, done 20 years ago by the owner before that one, or done 2 years ago.
not anymore, speaking just for myself, i have circuits running alongside the main support beam for my house in the UNFINISHED side of the basement, let alone coming into my breaker box, new romex is required to have the date stamped on it therefore you cannot pull the "its 5 years old".

that being said, i am unsure how long the dates on the cables cycle and details like that.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:39 AM   #28
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I charge a fee for permits and inspections so at least I'll get something for the hassle.
No doubt, of course you have to.

Mass. is obviously a lot different from NC, at least in practice. The permit/inspection cost could easily be more than the cost of the work, for example changing an outlet. How much do permits cost there?
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:52 AM   #29
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We have permit requirements, but there is no inspection requirement. All that's required is a one-line description of the work. Now that is a revenue generator
That is kinda bad.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:54 AM   #30
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new romex is required to have the date stamped on it therefore you cannot pull the "its 5 years old".
ha ha maybe there's a black market way to buy undated wire Possible new business opportunity for someone there....

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