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Old 05-08-2013, 10:40 PM   #31
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Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


That should be fine. You will also need a 20 amp simplex receptacle.

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:26 PM   #32
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Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


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That should be fine. You will also need a 20 amp simplex receptacle.
Yup, picked up one of those.

Hey while I'm on the subject, what would be the best way to trace the circuits that aren't being used? I have a 20 amp and a 30 amp breaker in the panel that have been off for the last 6 months. They're clearly not being used.... but they're connected to something. Should I just leave it alone, or find it and figure it all out?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:54 AM   #33
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Yup, picked up one of those.

Hey while I'm on the subject, what would be the best way to trace the circuits that aren't being used? I have a 20 amp and a 30 amp breaker in the panel that have been off for the last 6 months. They're clearly not being used.... but they're connected to something. Should I just leave it alone, or find it and figure it all out?
The 30A is probably an AC or Dryer.

The 20 amp could be for anything, including lighting. You'll have to turn it off and see what stops working, I'm afraid.

One of the reasons I make all lighting circuits on #14 wire and 15a breakers.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:55 AM   #34
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That should be fine. You will also need a 20 amp simplex receptacle.
lol. you and Jim Port in cahoots?
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #35
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The 30A is probably an AC or Dryer.

The 20 amp could be for anything, including lighting. You'll have to turn it off and see what stops working, I'm afraid.

One of the reasons I make all lighting circuits on #14 wire and 15a breakers.
Yea it's been off for months now. Everything in the house is working lol. I guess I'll just leave it alone.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #36
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Some people will say it is over kill to run lighting circuits on a 20 amp circuit and #12.
You did the right thing with using #14, since you couldn't change the breaker anyway.
15A vs 20A general circuts argument:

ASSUMING code compliant loading either way, I've got an AHJ who argues/comments/recommends (he does not find any exception), that if not necessary, you should run 15A verse 20 with the argument that if a lamp or something should short thru you (and you were a good ground) you'd only be hit with 15A verse 20 before tripping.

I tend to think that is a specious argument, in that would not a 15A hit (assuming you were a great ground) virtually do you in. Would an additional 5 amp make any difference.

He's never said it, but I suppose he would like all #12 on a 15A breaker.

What do you guys recommend as to 15 or 20A general circuts. PROS/CONS??
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #37
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Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


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Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
The 30A is probably an AC or Dryer.

The 20 amp could be for anything, including lighting. You'll have to turn it off and see what stops working, I'm afraid.

One of the reasons I make all lighting circuits on #14 wire and 15a breakers.
Ok, I'm afraid I have run into an issue that's worrying me.

I finally got around to running the 12-2 for the dedicated microwave circuit, I made the decision to use the 20 amp breaker in the panel that had been turned off since we moved into the house (~8 months). I decided to cut out the 12-2 that was previously connected to the breaker, and cut it back about 2 feet from the breaker panel, then I was going to abandon it and label it. So I cut it away, and since I don't have a spare electrical box, I zip tied it to one of the trusses and wire-nutted the contacts just to be safe.... I wasn't expecting there to be any power on the cable since I just removed it from the panel.

I finished up my new 12-2 install, and put the breaker back in the panel and fired everything up. Microwave works properly, no smoke or funky smells... All good... Or so I thought. I decided to go back in the garage to see if the cable I disconnected was dead or not, and I used my non-contact tester and it said there was power! I thought it might be a false reading so I verified with the multimeter and I definitely have 120VAC on the wire.

I'm extremely confused and not sure how to proceed. That cable is getting power from somewhere other than the panel, I'm not even sure how that's possible. Someone help me lol.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:17 PM   #38
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Ok so I killed the breakers one by one until I found the one that removed the power. The cable is somehow getting power from the kitchen.

I plan to turn off that breaker tomorrow morning and trace the cable to find out where it's connected and hopefully remove it. Is this basically the only way to approach it?

Is there any normal scenario where a cable would be connected to two different breakers?!
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:21 PM   #39
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Yes tracing the wire is the best approach, and no, nothing normal about two breakers controling one circuit.

Code requires two cicuits to power the outlets on kitchen counter tops, known as small appliance branch circuit (SABC).
Make sure the one breaker does not turn all counter top outlets off before removing the odd cable. It may well be the second SABC needed for the kitchen

Last edited by Gac66610; 06-03-2013 at 08:22 PM. Reason: re type some words
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:45 PM   #40
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Some people will say it is over kill to run lighting circuits on a 20 amp circuit and #12.
You did the right thing with using #14, since you couldn't change the breaker anyway.
Hey Gentlemen... Sorta off thread... maybe not too bad... but what are your feeling/ opinion in re to:

Where voltage drop is not an issue, running 20A (breaker, #12) general lighting and recep circuts verse running 15A's.

I've got an inspector who argues (doesn't give any exception issue or anythingh), why expose someone to a 20A hit when 15A is sufficient for the circuit.?

Obviously, the contrary argument is why not supply a circuit that can handle a greater load, or expansion, for a nominal extra cost.

Just curious as to your opinion.

Best

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Old 06-03-2013, 09:00 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Gac66610 View Post
Yes tracing the wire is the best approach, and no, nothing normal about two breakers controling one circuit.

Code requires two cicuits to power the outlets on kitchen counter tops, known as small appliance branch circuit (SABC).
Make sure the one breaker does not turn all counter top outlets off before removing the odd cable. It may well be the second SABC needed for the kitchen
I already know for a fact that one breaker does indeed turn off all of the above counter-top outlets. Irrespective of whether this phantom cable is connected or not. Coincidentally, this is the breaker that is still supplying power to the disconnected cable.

So you're saying, if the cable goes anywhere near the kitchen outlets, use it to power one or two and remove those from the other breaker?

Last edited by bobgodd; 06-03-2013 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #42
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Peter, the inspector is lacking some knowledge. Either way the person is not going to trip the breaker and will receive the same shock.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:24 PM   #43
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I already know for a fact that one breaker does indeed turn off all of the above counter-top outlets. Irrespective of whether this phantom cable is connected or not. Coincidentally, this is the breaker that is still supplying power to the disconnected cable.

So you're saying, if the cable goes anywhere near the kitchen outlets, use it to power one or two and remove those from the other breaker?
If possible it would be best to do so, I'm guessing there was a bad make up in one of the boxes, guessing doesnt do much good.
May need to do some exploring, check the number of cables in each outlet, try to find a mid point disconnect one of the feed then recheck the disconnected wire for power.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:29 PM   #44
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Peter, the inspector is lacking some knowledge. Either way the person is not going to trip the breaker and will receive the same shock.
Jim... Actually I agree with you,.... but this AHJ is thicker/denser than lead, with egivalent resistance.... so he might have a point.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:30 PM   #45
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If possible it would be best to do so, I'm guessing there was a bad make up in one of the boxes, guessing doesnt do much good.
May need to do some exploring, check the number of cables in each outlet, try to find a mid point disconnect one of the feed then recheck the disconnected wire for power.
So if the opportunity arose, I was planning on disconnecting and just removing the cable all-together.

You're saying that is not advisable? As the kitchen stands (and was inspected 10/2012) there is one breaker that controlls the 3 above counter outlets. If I were to leave it that way, would it be problematic or unsafe?

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