Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-01-2013, 02:21 PM   #1
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Share |
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Ok, I have 3 questions, that I cannot find concrete answers on:

1. I'm trying to put two pendant lights above my kitchen island, and I was going to use two of these ceiling boxes, and when I was up in the attic I noticed that these are sitting directly below my gas pipe. Probably only about 6 inches between the gas pipe and these boxes, is there any problem putting them that close?


2. I plan to put the pendants on a separate switch from from the recessed lights, so I opened the switch box to change it to a 3-gang box and one of the wires on the dining room chandelier switch is totally exposed. What is the proper way to deal with this. Should I pull the wire completely out and run new Romex, or can this be legally repaired? I've attached a pic of the wire. Also, if I should pull out the broken wire and replace it, can I add a junction in the attic to splice to the existing wire that's running into the chandelier, or do I have to replace the entire wire all the way to the chandelier?

3. When I was in the attic trying to arrange the new lighting, I noticed that the receptacle that the microwave is plugged into (over the range microwave receptacle is in upper cabinet) is on the same circuit as all of the lights. Is this problematic, or should this be ok? There hasn't always been a microwave there, it was just a vent hood. We put in the microwave shortly after moving in.

Thanks for the help!
Attached Thumbnails
Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help-20130501_104455.2.jpg  


Last edited by bobgodd; 05-01-2013 at 02:24 PM.
bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,683
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgodd View Post
Ok, I have 3 questions, that I cannot find concrete answers on:

1. I'm trying to put two pendant lights above my kitchen island, and I was going to use two of these ceiling boxes, and when I was up in the attic I noticed that these are sitting directly below my gas pipe. Probably only about 6 inches between the gas pipe and these boxes, is there any problem putting them that close?


Not a problem

2. I plan to put the pendants on a separate switch from from the recessed lights, so I opened the switch box to change it to a 3-gang box and one of the wires on the dining room chandelier switch is totally exposed. What is the proper way to deal with this. Should I pull the wire completely out and run new Romex, or can this be legally repaired? I've attached a pic of the wire. Also, if I should pull out the broken wire and replace it, can I add a junction in the attic to splice to the existing wire that's running into the chandelier, or do I have to replace the entire wire all the way to the chandelier?

If it was me, I would buy some heatshrink tubing and be done.


3. When I was in the attic trying to arrange the new lighting, I noticed that the receptacle that the microwave is plugged into (over the range microwave receptacle is in upper cabinet) is on the same circuit as all of the lights. Is this problematic, or should this be ok? There hasn't always been a microwave there, it was just a vent hood. We put in the microwave shortly after moving in.

Most over the range micro waves require a dedicated circuit.

Thanks for the help!
Answers in blue.

__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jbfan For This Useful Post:
bobgodd (05-05-2013), MTN REMODEL LLC (05-09-2013)
Old 05-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #3
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,397
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


I agree with JB on all 3 issues.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
bobgodd (05-05-2013), MTN REMODEL LLC (05-09-2013)
Old 05-01-2013, 02:34 PM   #4
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


So for the microwave should I go get a new breaker and run a whole new circuit and all that?

Forgive me if that's a ridiculous question lol. I'm capable, but very new and definitely like to cover all angles before I get started.
bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #5
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,397
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Yes, a new circuit run back to the panel just for the MW.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #6
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Yes, a new circuit run back to the panel just for the MW.
12-2 and a 20 amp breaker?
bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 03:01 PM   #7
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,397
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


That should be fine. You will also need a 20 amp simplex receptacle.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
bobgodd (05-05-2013)
Old 05-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #8
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Ok so I think I got it all together (minus the microwave) can you guys let me know if this is acceptable, and more importantly, safe?

Kitchen originally was at the end of one circuit. Breaker panel > garage ceiling light > main room ceiling fan/light > kitchen ceiling light fixtures (x2) > microwave receptacle > dining room light fixture > one receptacle. The house was built in 1971.

I've removed the microwave outlet from the circuit and the old kitchen/dining room fixtures. Now: Breaker panel > garage ceiling light > main room ceiling fan/light > recessed cans (x6) > pendant light (x2) > dining room chandelier > one receptacle.

The original wall switch was an old original metal box with 2 switches. I replaced with a 3-gang box and ran brand new romex for everything except the wire to the existing receptacle, and the wiring to the chandelier which was already installed. So there's 6 cables coming into the box; from left to right; out to the chandelier, out to the receptacle, out to the pendants, feed/source, out to recessed lights and out to the main room switch box.

From the feed, I have all 6 neutral wires connected over two wire nuts with a jumper from one wire nut to the other, making 4 wires per nut. I have all of the grounds twisted and crimped from left to right - 4 ground wires per crimp, two wires are cables coming into the box, one is a jumper to the next crimp, and the 4th ground wire is going to the light switch. The hot is wire nut'd with 4 wires - two jumpers, one to the old existing receptacle, one to the ceiling fan in the main room, and one for the middle light switch. Then the cables going to the receptacle and to the ceiling fan also contain a jumper for the last two light switches in the box.

I hope that's written properly lol... My main concern is the amount of wire nuts in one box, whether it's acceptable and safe. No wire nut has more than 4 14 gauge wires in it, and they were all pre-twisted and I used the appropriately sized nuts.

Thanks for all the help!
bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 11:19 AM   #9
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,683
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Wire nuts are not counted for fill in the nec.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #10
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Thanks for the response.

Of the two pictures, which one is correct?



bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #11
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,683
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


I do the first one myself, but either works.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #12
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,397
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


In the second diagram you do not need the junction boxes. Just use the boxes on the fixtures.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #13
Architectural Sculptor
 
RWolff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA, Midwest
Posts: 765
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Personally I prefer 12ga wire instead of 14 just for an extra margin, 14ga wire "scares" me like those even thinner wires used on some appliances do.

Quote:
2. I plan to put the pendants on a separate switch from from the recessed lights, so I opened the switch box to change it to a 3-gang box and one of the wires on the dining room chandelier switch is totally exposed. What is the proper way to deal with this. Should I pull the wire completely out and run new Romex, or can this be legally repaired?
Unless you expect some inspector/policeman to come visit and inspect your house wiring, I'm not sure the word "legally" has all that much weight to it, but if you do something wrong and it burns the house down the insurance might not pay if they discover the cause was a wire you wrapped with tape or otherwise repared.
I personally don't like the heat shrink idea, I'm sure it's fine but it IS thinner than the original factory insulation, if it was in my house I would be more inclined to replace that wire than patch/repair it, but that's just me.

Last edited by RWolff; 05-04-2013 at 03:44 PM.
RWolff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #14
Member
 
bobgodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 102
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by RWolff View Post
Personally I prefer 12ga wire instead of 14 just for an extra margin, 14ga wire "scares" me like those even thinner wires used on some appliances do.



Unless you expect some inspector/policeman to come visit and inspect your house wiring, I'm not sure the word "legally" has all that much weight to it, but if you do something wrong and it burns the house down the insurance might not pay if they discover the cause was a wire you wrapped with tape or otherwise repared.
I personally don't like the heat shrink idea, I'm sure it's fine but it IS thinner than the original factory insulation, if it was in my house I would be more inclined to replace that wire than patch/repair it, but that's just me.
I've considered running 12 gauge but over half of the circuits wiring would still be 14 gauge so I didn't think it would be smart to junction box halfway through the circuit run and switch to 12 gauge.

I'm using LED retrofit kit lights in the cans so I figured the overall load to be low, especially since I removed the microwave. Didn't really think running all new 12 gauge back to the panel was necessary... But I'm definitely no professional lol.
bobgodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2013, 05:01 PM   #15
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,683
Default

Pendant and Can install; ran into problem need help


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgodd View Post
I've considered running 12 gauge but over half of the circuits wiring would still be 14 gauge so I didn't think it would be smart to junction box halfway through the circuit run and switch to 12 gauge.

I'm using LED retrofit kit lights in the cans so I figured the overall load to be low, especially since I removed the microwave. Didn't really think running all new 12 gauge back to the panel was necessary... But I'm definitely no professional lol.
Some people will say it is over kill to run lighting circuits on a 20 amp circuit and #12.
You did the right thing with using #14, since you couldn't change the breaker anyway.

__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jbfan For This Useful Post:
bobgodd (05-05-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.