Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2009, 07:52 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Panel Swap


SquareD QU = over rated.

Seimans/copper bus is my choice.

I'd bring the grounding up to code with a #6 wire to two groiund rods.

I'd bring the bonding up to code with a #4 to the water and gas piping (you can go smaller than #4 on the gas but generally it is easiest to hit them with the same wire)

220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 08:32 PM   #17
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old College Try View Post
I was checking out panels at the big box today and noticed that the QO breakers tend to run about double the cost of the Homeline. As a result I may opt to go for the less costly option. Having said that, I noticed that the Homeline bus is aluminum while that of Siemens and GE are copper at a comparable cost. Any thoughts?
You should be able to get a nice Siemens G4040 200a 40/40 w/breakers & copper bus (value-pak?) at one of the box stores. Mine came from HD but some of the HD stores in my area only had the box w/o breakers included. I did better since I would need to purchase the breakers anyway. It came with 6-20a, 1- 30a and 1-50a for under $200.
I like the pre-attached split neutral bars one on each side of the panel, slotted/square drive screws which are already backed out, and ease of installation. Also the cover has tabs to hold in place while screwing it on.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 08:33 PM   #18
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


I would not use Homeline. I have heard too many stories of loose breakers, and like you said, aluminum bus.. uhg.

People do seem to be pretty happy with the Siemens like 220/221 suggested.

Did you find out from your inspector yet whether you need AFCI/GFCI upgrades or not? If you are going to need to put in AFCIs those could easily overshadow the cost of the regular breakers if you are going to use breaker cost as a deciding factor.
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 11:54 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 999
Rewards Points: 0
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Panel Swap


I am doing my panel replacement in the next week or so and my inspector said only the circuits I am adding or altering need to be up to current code. If you are only changing out the panel, then all your circuits are just being "reconnected" and in my state its a charge of $2 per re-connected circuit (for the permit fee). I am adding/altering about 7 total circuits in my panel swap, and I am installing a Square D QO panel that originally came with a 200 amp breaker. Since upgrading the service right now would mean changing the underground wiring, I found a 150 amp main breaker and bolted it into the panel, keeping the 200 amp breaker for later when I decide to upgrade the service.

I personally like the QO panels, there are plenty of neutral connections, and I added in ground bus bars on both sides of the panel.
theatretch85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 02:33 PM   #20
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I am doing my panel replacement in the next week or so and my inspector said only the circuits I am adding or altering need to be up to current code.
This really varies depending on the jurisdiction and inspector though.
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 05:28 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 74
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


One thing I've noticed so far in researching panels is that they often refer to a top or bottom feed. I'm assuming this refers to the main feed to the panel. My current panel actually has the feed coming in through the side. Is this common, or will I have problems with this?
Old College Try is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 09:35 AM   #22
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old College Try View Post
One thing I've noticed so far in researching panels is that they often refer to a top or bottom feed. I'm assuming this refers to the main feed to the panel. My current panel actually has the feed coming in through the side. Is this common, or will I have problems with this?
As long as the main breaker operates horizontally, it doesn't matter how the panel is oriented vertically. You need the lugs on top? Turn the panel that way. Bottom? Turn the panel that way.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 12:10 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 999
Rewards Points: 0
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
As long as the main breaker operates horizontally, it doesn't matter how the panel is oriented vertically. You need the lugs on top? Turn the panel that way. Bottom? Turn the panel that way.
Why is it that the main breaker has to operate horizontally? I have seen some panels with the main breaker that operates vertically; mostly seen in a commercial setting...
theatretch85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 12:29 PM   #24
Floor Sweeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central MN
Posts: 359
Rewards Points: 2
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
Why is it that the main breaker has to operate horizontally? I have seen some panels with the main breaker that operates vertically; mostly seen in a commercial setting...
It is totally fine if the breaker operates vertically, but if the panel is flipped around so the breaker is "upside down" then "off" will be up and "on" will be down. NEC requires down to be off. If the lever moves horizontally it does not matter.
junkcollector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 10:31 AM   #25
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old College Try View Post
One thing I've noticed so far in researching panels is that they often refer to a top or bottom feed. I'm assuming this refers to the main feed to the panel. My current panel actually has the feed coming in through the side. Is this common, or will I have problems with this?
My original 150a old Murray panel had the feed coming in the side at the top too. The main breaker was fed from the side so it was probably better.

My new Siemens panel is top (or bottom) fed. The breaker itself has the feed coming directly down into it not requiring much of the feeder wires in the panel- thru the box and right into the main. This is more streamlined and a better design.
__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 01:07 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 999
Rewards Points: 0
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcollector View Post
It is totally fine if the breaker operates vertically, but if the panel is flipped around so the breaker is "upside down" then "off" will be up and "on" will be down. NEC requires down to be off. If the lever moves horizontally it does not matter.
Ah, ok. Makes sense.
theatretch85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 74
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Well, since I'm not running a new service cable and the existing cable enters through the side, it may be a whole lot easier if I can keep that sort of configuration. Would I be able to bring the service in through a large knockout in the side of the panel, or is this just not an option? I just spoke to the Village inspector and he said that I don't have to bring any of the existing circuits up to code. All I have to do is update the grounding and bond to the water service /gas with a #4 copper cable within 5' of where it enters the house. Do the ground rods need to be copper? If so, I'm not sure what the existing is made of. Would you recommend placing 2 brand new rods, or should I just place a second one in and call it a day?

Last edited by Old College Try; 05-19-2009 at 06:52 PM.
Old College Try is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2009, 08:06 AM   #28
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


For the cost of rods and since it is a "you only do it once" operation, I might consider adding two new in addition to the others. Again it depends on what you have to go thru (how difficult it is) to do this depending on your environment- soil, obstacles etc. Check with the inspector to see what they think.
__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?

Last edited by handyman78; 05-20-2009 at 08:31 AM.
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2009, 09:37 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 74
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


I can't disagree. I like to do things the right way the first time, especially if it's something that I'll never need to do again. I'll most likely set 2 new rods. So, if I understand correctly, I'll have a continuous #6 wire exiting the panel directly outside to the first rod and then to the second just over 6 feet away. Additionally, I'll have a #4 wire exiting the panel down directly to the water pipe where it enters through the foundation (which is right below the panel) and with that same wire I'll jump over the meter and connect to the pipe with another clamp. Does this sound correct? With regards to bonding the gas line, can I run a 3rd ground wire from the panel, or do I need to run a continuous cable from the water line? I ask because it would be indirect as the gas line is not near the incoming water line. Finally, can I simply jump from the gas line to any place on the water line, or does the cable have to originate from the same ground clamp on the water line, or the panel? I've read a few places that the gas line does not need to be grounded if it's grounded by being connected to electrically grounding appliances? Is this true? If necessary I will eventually ask my inspector if this is a jurisdictional issue, but I end up having to call the guy at home since he works during the day and I always feel like I'm inconveniencing him. I hope what I'm asking is not too confusing.

Last edited by Old College Try; 05-20-2009 at 10:08 PM.
Old College Try is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #30
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Panel Swap


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old College Try View Post
With regards to bonding the gas line, can I run a 3rd ground wire from the panel, or do I need to run a continuous cable from the water line? I ask because it would be indirect as the gas line is not near the incoming water line. Finally, can I simply jump from the gas line to any place on the water line, or does the cable have to originate from the same ground clamp on the water line, or the panel? I've read a few places that the gas line does not need to be grounded if it's grounded by being connected to electrically grounding appliances?
In my situation, I had the gasco in many years ago since there was a gas leak in the neighborhood. The inspector came in and tagged me for not having bond between the gas/water lines. He said it was an easy fix which I corrected quickly- 2 pipe clamps and an 8" piece of 4awg between the closest copper water line and the gas pipe was all that was needed. My house has all copper water lines (no plastic) so no problem with a continuous connection here.

__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old House Rewire finnimus Electrical 15 05-13-2011 10:39 PM
Adding a second Electric sub panel TW Lucas Electrical 9 10-05-2008 02:37 AM
Replacement Meter Panel leonard_voet Electrical 19 04-09-2008 10:27 AM
Installing new (service?) breaker panel and generator panel Nhrafan Electrical 6 04-01-2008 03:03 PM
turn main panel into a sub panel? tikicarver Electrical 2 01-24-2008 07:37 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.