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hidden1 05-06-2013 12:24 AM

panel location
 
If you have a 1970s home with the main panel in bath will it still be sellable , if built that way,even though new code was in 90s/not allowing it?

ddawg16 05-06-2013 01:42 AM

To the best of my knowledge, as long as you don't retrofit it, you do not have to bring it up to current code....

However, in some locations..if your renting the house out, then it has to meet current code.

(I'm hoping our experts will chime in...because I'm thinking that it's not against code to have a panel in a bathroom. I wouldn't want it...but...builders do stupid stuff sometimes)

electures 05-06-2013 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden1 (Post 1173502)
If you have a 1970s home with the main panel in bath will it still be sellable , if built that way,even though new code was in 90s/not allowing it?

Please update your profile with your location. Chances are one of our pros may live in your area and can provide some insite.

AS for my area, if the panel is where it was when the building was constructed, it does not have to be relocated.

hidden1 05-06-2013 10:12 AM

It is in Tennessee .I'm not sure on code there .the meter is opposite the box.

hidden1 05-06-2013 06:37 PM

I DONT want to relocate it .I guess it can be considered grandfathered in..

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-06-2013 06:48 PM

The NEC does not require anything to be brought to current code that was compliant at time done, unless it is reworked. (grandfathered) Most all jurisdictions (in re the building department) employ the NEC for their electrical code... but sometimes they amend that code.

In addition, certain jurisdictions install additional code requirements under authorities other than the building department (like CO monitors upon sale or rental under their real estate statutues.)

A main or sub in a bathroom is not compliant today.

I'd call the building department and real estate department and just check... maybe even a good realtor with similar experience would know.

My guess is no, you would not have to relocate your main and your service upon sale....JUST MY GUESS.

Best

Peter

electures 05-06-2013 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC
The NEC does not require anything to be brought to current code that was compliant at time done, unless it is reworked. (grandfathered) Most all jurisdictions (in re the building department) employ the NEC for their electrical code... but sometimes they amend that code.

In addition, certain jurisdictions install additional code requirements under authorities other than the building department (like CO monitors upon sale or rental under their real estate statutues.)

A main or sub in a bathroom is not compliant today.

I'd call the building department and real estate department and just check... maybe even a good realtor with similar experience would know.

My guess is no, you would not have to relocate your main and your service upon sale....JUST MY GUESS.

Best

Peter

What about AFCI protection and TR receptacles?

usair 05-07-2013 07:49 AM

If you ar selling th home you will be dealing with three people that may requir you to relocate th panel . First the home inspector will probably write this in his notes if he does you now will get the lender involved as they may want the panel addressed third the insurer may want it addressed .
As long as the HI does not make an issue you should be grandfathered in as long as no modifications have been made. A quick call to your local building dept might also be in order.

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-07-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures (Post 1174126)
What about AFCI protection and TR receptacles?

GOOD QUESTION..... I don't know.

Basically I would think it's subjective of the AHJ... because I don't believe renovation/ rework is defined in the NEC.

Further interesting is if you installed a new main service (or sub panel If it applied) I would clearly think that constituted renovatiion/ rework BUT... if you had MWBC feeding the bedrooms... there are not many makers of AFCI breakers for MWBC.... ?????? I have no idea.

I've never had the issue in CO, or Cali, as yet:yes:

Peter

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-07-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usair (Post 1174209)
If you ar selling th home you will be dealing with three people that may requir you to relocate th panel . First the home inspector will probably write this in his notes if he does you now will get the lender involved as they may want the panel addressed third the insurer may want it addressed .
As long as the HI does not make an issue you should be grandfathered in as long as no modifications have been made. A quick call to your local building dept might also be in order.


GOOD POINT..... Although technically in most states (AFAIK) they can not require you to correct/upgrade. Yes , they can deny insurance or a mortgage to your buyer, or the buyer can ask for anything and walk away from the sale.

As far as accepting a contract that has VA financing, VA appraisers are required (not the inspector) to seek out/certify any safety or material defects in their appraisal and IMO that bathroom main could be a problem... at least more so than a conventional mortgage appraisal.

I do buy/flip homes now and then, and often inspectors bring up grandfathered issues, that often concern a new unsophisticated buyer.
Usually an honest discussion with the buyer and his inspector and the seller (me) will explain the code changes and allay the buyers concern.

(If it's a material safety issue, I correct it) If it's material to the buyers circumstances and they are honest and resonable, my policy is to fix it.... for instance a buyer with small children who would like my railing ballusters brought back to 4" spacing rather than the old code 8)

I would think a resonable buyer would understand they should not do electrical work while taking a bath.

Best

Peter

electures 05-07-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC (Post 1174289)
GOOD QUESTION..... I don't know.

Basically I would think it's subjective of the AHJ... because I don't believe renovation/ rework is defined in the NEC.

Further interesting is if you installed a new main service (or sub panel If it applied) I would clearly think that constituted renovatiion/ rework BUT... if you had MWBC feeding the bedrooms... there are not many makers of AFCI breakers for MWBC.... ?????? I have no idea.

I've never had the issue in CO, or Cali, as yet:yes:

Peter

Actually the NEC addressed AFCI and TR requirements for replacements in the 2011 NEC.

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-07-2013 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures (Post 1174369)
Actually the NEC addressed AFCI and TR requirements for replacements in the 2011 NEC.

Thanks.... I'd better look it up if it becomes an issue, or ask my sparky next time I see him.

Didn't know it had been specifically addressed in 2011 NEC.

Peter

frenchelectrican 05-07-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC (Post 1174374)
Thanks.... I'd better look it up if it becomes an issue, or ask my sparky next time I see him.

Didn't know it had been specifically addressed in 2011 NEC.

Peter

Ya Electures did bring up a good point.

Now let say if someone want to move the panel only the rest of wiring in the house is very good shape.

The gotcha If I did remember the North Americian side once you move the panel and extend the exsting circuit you will have to install the AFCI breakers but again all it depending on how the local / states codes are written so each states are differnt.

I will give you a example what I do over here in France.

Once we do move the distubation panel ( breaker box ) to differnt location we have to bring it up to the date with Nomes ( codes ) requirement and many older panels what I have ran into do not have full RCD protection and have to add them on.

Keep in your mind our Nomes do not allow distrubation panels in bathroom either ( it used to be allow for brief time but it is not legit at all )

Merci,
Marc

mr leak 05-11-2013 07:25 PM

Home inspectors are not code inspectors The focus is on health and safety. To address a electrical pannel in the bath room would likely state. The panel in the BATHROOM WAS ALLOWED AT THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION AND A SAFETY UPGRAGE WOULD BE TO RELOCATE THE PANEL

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-11-2013 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr leak (Post 1177323)
Home inspectors are not code inspectors The focus is on health and safety. To address a electrical pannel in the bath room would likely state. The panel in the BATHROOM WAS ALLOWED AT THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION AND A SAFETY UPGRAGE WOULD BE TO RELOCATE THE PANEL


Mr Leak.... I agree.... when you have a good inspector... but honestly I can give you some great stories of some of the inspections I have to read by some less than good inspectors.


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