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Old 03-14-2009, 08:43 AM   #1
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Panel Ground Wire


I am remodeling a laundry room in a 50 year old house where an old service entrance panel is located. It is now a sub panel, the service was upgraded to 200A. The old copper water pipes have long since been abandoned and converted to PEX and PB. The DWV system is PVC where accessable. The ground wire from the sub panel bonds to a not used copper pipe that will be removed in the remodel. The house is slab on grade

Can a new ground rod (inside a wall) be substituted, or should a short copper pipe be installed in the PEX plumbing for earthing or both?

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Old 03-14-2009, 09:57 AM   #2
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Panel Ground Wire


If im understanding you correctly, no grounds are available. You need to install 2 new 8' copper rods outside with 1 continuos #4 bare copper from the panel ground to the last rod connecting them all together. If you install a ground rod in the wall you will then have to provide a access door for inspectors to see the connection. You should also drive the rods below the surface and bury the wire because if you mow or weed eat, there is less chance of damage. The panel will aslo come with a green screw to install in the neutral bar which connects the neutral to the panel for bonding.

This is all in the new panel and install a ground in the sub also form the main ground.

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:13 AM   #3
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There are 2 ground rods attached to the main panel outside. This was done when the service was upgraded to 200A. The sub panel is connected to the main panel by a 4 wire service entrance cable. HHNG

The sub-panel is inside the house and was bonded to the former cold water copper pipes that are buried under the house slab. Those pipes have long since been abandoned, not being connected to the well water system when they began leaking over 14 years ago (before I bought the house). The copper pipes that are above ground will be cut off flush with the slab, filled with hydraulic cement as a cap, then hidden under ceramic floor tile. These pipes are 6 inches from the wall, so to leave them would be an eye sore and a nuisance. The entire house is plumbed with Polybutyl or PEX, so there are no copper pipes for grounding the sub panel.

I am asking about grounding the sub-panel, so should I still bury 2 new ground rods?
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:34 AM   #4
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Panel Ground Wire


In an correct installation, you do not need a ground rod at the sub panel. The ground rods at the main service panel will take care of the grounds for the whole system. It sounds like the ground wire in the SE cable to the sub panel is all you need.

Make sure that the sub panel is setup properly with the neutral bus and the ground bus separated. From my reading, whoever did the install should not have installed/connected a separate ground at the sub panel.
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #5
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Panel Ground Wire


This was the main 100A panel that was turned into a sub-panel when the service was upgraded 13 years ago. That is presumably the reason for the ground connection to the copper water pipes, it was a pre-existing condition. I am wondering if in my remodel and removal of that ground wire, if a replacement needs installed and the proper installation for that wire if needed.

Thanks for the assistance.

Last edited by Douger_F; 03-14-2009 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:24 AM   #6
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Panel Ground Wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by Douger_F View Post
This was the main 100A panel that was turned into a sub-panel when the service was upgraded 13 years ago. That is presumably the reason for the ground connection to the copper water pipes, it was a pre-existing condition. I am wondering if in my remodel and removal of that ground wire, if a replacement needs installed and the proper installation for that wire if needed.

Thanks for the assistance.
No, Doug, that ground is not needed as long as all the metal piping is gone. And unless the feed to the subpanel has a #4 ground, the pipe ground would have been a code violation anyway.
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:34 PM   #7
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Thanks to all the responders.

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