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captainmorgan 03-11-2009 10:08 AM

oven installation
 
I'm installing a new built in oven in my parents house,exsisting wires are a 3 wires, black,white,copper grd.The oven is black,white,red,and green. How do I wire it in? thanks for any help.

jerryh3 03-11-2009 10:35 AM

You'll need to run a new wire. The new oven requires a neutral which you don't have. Can you post the model number of the oven.

captainmorgan 03-11-2009 11:01 AM

The oven is a kenmore 79040459800 Thanks

rgsgww 03-11-2009 11:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You guys may want to check this out but the manual says you can use a 3-wire feed and just tie the appliance neutral and ground with the ground from the wall.

*from the pdf*

captainmorgan 03-11-2009 11:49 AM

Thanks

HouseHelper 03-11-2009 11:59 AM

You can use a three wire feed... IF the three wire feed is correct. What the OP has is not correct. It must be three insulated wires or SE cable that originates from the main service. What he describes is **/2 NM cable, which has never been correct for a 120/240V stove/oven installation.

Stubbie 03-11-2009 12:04 PM

Leave it to Kenmores technical writers to screw this up.

You cannot use the existing 3 wire branch circuit it was originally a 240 volt only branch circuit with an equipment ground (bare) a black (hot) and a white (used as hot). Existing 3 wire branch circuits are only allowed if they originate at the service equipment, are 120/240 with an insulated neutral or a bare neutral that is part of a SE type cable, and an equipment ground is not present in the branch circuit.

Your cable has an equipment ground, it likely is a nm-b type cable and cannot provide or meet NEC code as a 3 wire existing branch circuit for a 120/240 volt appliance.

As jerry and househelper said you need a new 4 wire branch circuit.

captainmorgan 03-11-2009 12:40 PM

The house had a exsisting double built in oven that was hard wired into this circuit with the same wires that the new oven has.Black white green red My father bought a new single built in oven, unfortunately he took the wires apart before I got to look at them.The house 3 wires black,white,cooper. The oven has black,white,green,red.black to black,green to copper,white to white,red to?Thanks

InPhase277 03-11-2009 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainmorgan (Post 243195)
The house had a exsisting double built in oven that was hard wired into this circuit with the same wires that the new oven has.Black white green red My father bought a new single built in oven, unfortunately he took the wires apart before I got to look at them.The house 3 wires black,white,cooper. The oven has black,white,green,red.black to black,green to copper,white to white,red to?Thanks

Any way that it was previously wired is no basis to assume that it was right. As has been said, it is an improper setup and potentially dangerous. No one here is going to tell you how to do it wrong again. The fact is, you need 4 wires from your panel box. What you had before may have worked, but it was not legal then, and it certainly is not legal now.

Sorry, people just don't like to here that. And if you insist on going forward with the way it is, you will have to do it by yourself with trial and error.

rgsgww 03-11-2009 01:39 PM

That's what I thought, It didn't look quite right.

You need a new 4 wire feed. You have a bare ground wire, so you cannot use it as shown in the kenmore writing.

captainmorgan 03-11-2009 01:51 PM

Thanks to everyone that tried to help. I just didn't know since a 4 wire oven was already there.That's why I asked

220/221 03-11-2009 06:34 PM

Some would argue that the back/white/bare NM cable is the same as the black/black/bare SE cable. It has two insulated wires and one bare wire.

If an existing cable is the black/black/bare SE type, it is legal to install both the white and green from the oven to the bare in the cable.

Personally, I don't see the difference but whoever wrote this section of the electrical code has a different opinion.

rgsgww 03-11-2009 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221 (Post 243328)
Some would argue that the back/white/bare NM cable is the same as the black/black/bare SE cable. It has two insulated wires and one bare wire.

If an existing cable is the black/black/bare SE type, it is legal to install both the white and green from the oven to the bare in the cable.

Personally, I don't see the difference but whoever wrote this section of the electrical code has a different opinion.


Maybe its since the ground in nm may be smaller than the conductors, so it would be a hazard to use it as a neutral...or the fact that it has to be tied to other equipment grounding conductors in a jb?

NolaTigaBait 03-11-2009 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgsgww (Post 243337)
Maybe its since the ground in nm may be smaller than the conductors, so it would be a hazard to use it as a neutral...or the fact that it has to be tied to other equipment grounding conductors in a jb?

any curent carrying conductor past the line side of the service has to insulated..except if its se....the only thing that neutral is for is the timer and such..it doesn't have that much current on it, so i don't think sizing is an issue

NolaTigaBait 03-11-2009 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220/221 (Post 243328)
Some would argue that the back/white/bare NM cable is the same as the black/black/bare SE cable. It has two insulated wires and one bare wire.

If an existing cable is the black/black/bare SE type, it is legal to install both the white and green from the oven to the bare in the cable.

Personally, I don't see the difference but whoever wrote this section of the electrical code has a different opinion.

220, i think we discussed this on the other forum...


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