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-   -   Outside GFCI blowing circtuit (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/outside-gfci-blowing-circtuit-151040/)

terry1121 07-21-2012 09:58 AM

Outside GFCI blowing circtuit
 
1 Attachment(s)
I wired two GFCI outlets into an outside box. I buried cable, brought it up into a store bought two gang GFCI box, and I'm blowing the circuit.

From what I have already read and seen on this forum, I "seem" :whistling2: to be doing it right. See picture attached. Line goes to line, load goes to line downstream.

What could be the problem?? Thanks for taking a look. :)

Terry

pardonme2711 07-21-2012 10:10 AM

dont wire the second GFI through the load side of the first wont work that way and is unnecessary. Take the hot and neutral coming in and pigtail it with 2 hots and 2 neutrals one going to each LINE side of each GFI and you will be good to go. Another way if you want to keep what you have is remove the second GFI and put in a standard outlet wired through the load just as you have it. The outlet will be in series with the gfi and will be protected.

terry1121 07-21-2012 12:12 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Thanks pardonme2711,

Still blowing the circuit. I attached a pic for reference. Assuming this is correct, let's tell the rest of the story.

The other pic shows my wiring coming out of the house. The single house line feeds two separate lines. One goes to my problem and one goes to my waterfall pump. When this first happened, I disconnected and rewired only the pump to see if that was an issue. It worked fine.

The two unground wires run from the house directly to their intended destination. No splits underground. This is rated for burial and I did not use conduit.

Since these two lines are separate destinations - being wired off the same house line (it's own circuit, nothing else is on the circuit), is there another explanation why I'm still blowing the circuit?

Terry

stickboy1375 07-21-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pardonme2711 (Post 970858)
dont wire the second GFI through the load side of the first wont work that way and is unnecessary. .


It will work just fine, its just a silly way to do it because if the first gfi trips, it takes out both devices...

stickboy1375 07-21-2012 12:40 PM

http://www.diychatroom.com/attachmen...it-photo-2.jpg


I doubt the LB was legal to splice in, why didn't you just run both circuits inside and splice them there? Or Install a jbox on the outside of the house...

andrew79 07-21-2012 01:12 PM

I've always found having a gfci load side of another generally causes the first trip. Has something to do with the gfci internal circuit leaking current.

Million dollar question. Is the gfci tripping or the breaker?
I think were focused on the wrong problem :D

stickboy1375 07-21-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 970948)
I've always found having a gfci load side of another generally causes the first trip. Has something to do with the gfci internal circuit leaking current.

If the GFCI is leaking current itself, its not a good thing and the upstream GFCI is doing its job, but there is nothing wrong with wiring a gfci on an already gfci protected circuit...
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 970948)
Million dollar question. Is the gfci tripping or the breaker?


Im guessing the circuit breaker, and I'm guessing he has a faulty wire, or a faulty GFCI, I personally, would remove the GFCI's and ohm out the conductors for a short. Some people don't do a very good job at removing the UF sheathing without cutting into the conductors. :)

wirenut1110 07-21-2012 02:35 PM

It looks like one of the hots in the LB has the insulation stripped off of it quite a bit before it goes in the wirenut. Is the shorting on the bare ground?

curiousB 07-21-2012 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickboy1375 (Post 970949)
... but there is nothing wrong with wiring a gfci on an already gfci protected circuit...


Yes there is. You will perform your monthly GFCI test on the second unit and wonder why the power cuts out yet the GFCI you are working on isn't tripped. You'll find the breaker is fine as well only compounding your misery. Only if you eventually figure out it is cascaded GFCIs will you figure out the mystery. Even then not many people will find it intuitive that testing one GFCI trips anohter. Might not be a code violation but its just a bad idea.

curiousB 07-21-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry1121 (Post 970850)
I wired two GFCI outlets into an outside box. I buried cable, brought it up into a store bought two gang GFCI box, and I'm blowing the circuit.

From what I have already read and seen on this forum, I "seem" :whistling2: to be doing it right. See picture attached. Line goes to line, load goes to line downstream.

What could be the problem?? Thanks for taking a look. :)

Terry

Since both GFCI units are at the same location and only one feed line I would eliminate the second GFCI and put a duplex receptacle in the second spot fed from load side of the first GFCI. No need for two GFCIs. Just get a receptacle compatible with the weatherproof cover you are using.

curiousB 07-21-2012 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry1121 (Post 970897)
Thanks pardonme2711,

Still blowing the circuit. I attached a pic for reference. Assuming this is correct, let's tell the rest of the story.

The other pic shows my wiring coming out of the house. The single house line feeds two separate lines. One goes to my problem and one goes to my waterfall pump. When this first happened, I disconnected and rewired only the pump to see if that was an issue. It worked fine.

The two unground wires run from the house directly to their intended destination. No splits underground. This is rated for burial and I did not use conduit.

Since these two lines are separate destinations - being wired off the same house line (it's own circuit, nothing else is on the circuit), is there another explanation why I'm still blowing the circuit?

Terry

Is the breaker feeding this GFCI breaker due to waterfall pump? If so could there be 3 GFCIs cascaded? If it is tripping for over current then you must have a cable fault or something mis-wired. An errant shovel perhaps?

Evstarr 07-22-2012 12:23 AM

Disconnect everything at that splice and see if it still trips.

terry1121 07-22-2012 04:11 PM

It's not the circuit breaker as suggest. It doesn't trip when only the pump is connected. It's only when the second wire is connected when it trip.

I disconnected both GFCI's down to bare wires coming out of the ground. It still trips.

I will assume then a short is occurring at the connections in the conduit box coming out of the house, in the line somewhere, or at the end of the circuit outside (nothing connected at the end except the ground wires - the ground wires remain connected at the house, too, but like I said, when I disconnect the hot and neutral of the second line, it doesn't trip even when the grounds of all three wires are connected).

I dug up the cable, no problems (this was done just a month ago and no gardening/digging was done since then around the cable).

What else could it be?? I checked the wires at the house, no bare wiring showing except one small slit on a neutral where I cut the sheathing and I will certainly tape it. At this point, however, it touches no other wire.

Any ideas for me? I am mystified and I would be grateful for your continued help! :)

Terry

stickboy1375 07-22-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curiousB (Post 971301)
Yes there is. You will perform your monthly GFCI test on the second unit and wonder why the power cuts out yet the GFCI you are working on isn't tripped. You'll find the breaker is fine as well only compounding your misery. Only if you eventually figure out it is cascaded GFCIs will you figure out the mystery. Even then not many people will find it intuitive that testing one GFCI trips anohter. Might not be a code violation but its just a bad idea.

I never said it wouldn't cause a headache, just stated that it would physically work. :thumbsup:

andrew79 07-22-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry1121
It's not the circuit breaker as suggest. It doesn't trip when only the pump is connected. It's only when the second wire is connected when it trip.

I disconnected both GFCI's down to bare wires coming out of the ground. It still trips.

I will assume then a short is occurring at the connections in the conduit box coming out of the house, in the line somewhere, or at the end of the circuit outside (nothing connected at the end except the ground wires - the ground wires remain connected at the house, too, but like I said, when I disconnect the hot and neutral of the second line, it doesn't trip even when the grounds of all three wires are connected).

I dug up the cable, no problems (this was done just a month ago and no gardening/digging was done since then around the cable).

What else could it be?? I checked the wires at the house, no bare wiring showing except one small slit on a neutral where I cut the sheathing and I will certainly tape it. At this point, however, it touches no other wire.

Any ideas for me? I am mystified and I would be grateful for your continued help! :)

Terry

Being as you know what wire is causing it to trip I would start there. Never trust the "just installed" so it must be fine attitude. If that's your bad wire at the joint then I recommend looking for a hot to ground and neutral to ground short and also a hot to neutral short


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