Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-29-2007, 02:50 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Outlet without Ground


I have recently purchased a house with some older wiring in it and some of the outlet boxes and light switches do not have ground wires.

I know that with the outlet boxes I can put in GFI's, but is there a similar type of GFI box that has on/off switch like a light switch that will still meet code. Or does this have to be done a different way like bringing a ground wire directly to the box in a different fashion.

Thanks!!

water_cutter101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2007, 03:29 PM   #2
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,826
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by water_cutter101 View Post
......is there a similar type of GFI box that has on/off switch like a light switch that will still meet code.
What code are you trying to meet?

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2007, 11:34 PM   #3
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


If you are talking about this type of GFCI switch what we called http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring...h/faceless.jpg [ faceless GFCI ] ??


Merci, Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


You can possibly install gfci breakers at the panel that will protect everything.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 11:42 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


The code of for Ontario, Canada.

Thanks.
water_cutter101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 12:10 PM   #6
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,826
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


Well, what code is that?
I don't know Canadian codes, but are you required to meet current code with an old house, or are you trying to bring the house up to code.

My question basically is WHY do you want to GFI protect switches??????
I have NEVER heard of any code that requires this.

At any rate, a breaker is your best bet as 220/221 said.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 01:54 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


I am trying to meet a current code with an old old. I would think that's the same as bringing the house up to code.

Some of the outlets (not just in the washroom) in the house are using 1950's wiring that do not have a ground to the box, just a positive and negative lead. I know with those outlets I can just put a simple GFI and it will be the current code safety requirements for shock.

In some cases, some of the light circuits do not have grounded boxes either. So I am concerned that this may pose a shock hazzard just like the outlets without ground wires to them.

That is why I was wondering if there was an equivalent GFI type box receptable that doesn't have an outlet, but instead an on/off switch.


Regards.
water_cutter101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 02:07 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


the exception that allows you to use a GFI instead of rewireing the entire circuit does not bring the circuit up to current code. It only allows you to use ground prong recs on two wire circuts.

If you think that by using GFI devices you are bringing the circuit up to the same standard as if you ran grounded wires, you are wrong.

Also you do not have positive and negative wires, unless your home is wired in DC instead of AC.
__________________
Master Electrician
jwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 05:16 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,946
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


A GFCI does work properly in a circuit with no ground.

I can understand the fear of flipping a light switch while standing on a not perfectly dry floor and getting electrocuted. If the power feed to the light subcircuit was daisy chained through a receptacle outlet box upstream, you can put an ordinary GFCI receptacle in that outlet box and connect what continues beyond that point to the load terminals of the GFCI. (Or use a GFCI breaker as mentioned earlier to protect the entire circuit.)

This offers protection although not code compliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhite View Post
Also you do not have positive and negative wires, unless your home is wired in DC instead of AC.
I know the usage is incorrect but occasionally I have referred to the two legs of a regular 120/240 volt AC service as plus 120 and minus 120 respectively. (The neutral is zero.)

Last edited by AllanJ; 12-30-2007 at 05:18 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 05:52 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


Thanks for all your replies.... You have cleared this up for me quite nicely.

Regards!!
water_cutter101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2007, 08:25 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 260
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Outlet without Ground


If you really feel the need to protect a switch - then a circuit breaker should do it ?


Last edited by tribe_fan; 12-30-2007 at 08:28 PM.
tribe_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Outlet not working? Madnpc Electrical 3 12-07-2007 05:51 PM
Wiring a switch, power from outlet Big Bill Electrical 4 09-15-2007 03:59 PM
Subpanel feeder questions Silhanek Electrical 4 03-22-2007 06:30 PM
20a Outlet Vs. 15a Outlet bobo Electrical 3 05-29-2006 10:55 PM
European 220V outlet "Schuko" estophile Electrical 6 08-27-2005 08:45 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.