Outlet in window return?

MushCreek · 08-10-2012, 09:19 AM

Hi! First post here, probably with many to follow. I am building my own home in SC, and have run into an electrical problem with the kitchen. The house has very thick walls, so I am angling the window returns for a flared effect so they don't look like tunnels. There is a window on either side of the range, and with the flare, there isn't much room for an outlet. Also, the windows are only 2" from the counter tops, so no room there, either. I'm wondering if I can put the outlets in the angled part of the window return and still meet the 2' rule for outlets on a kitchen counter. They could go under the counter, but I'm not a fan of that. Clear as mud? Thanks for any input!

Jay

joecaption · 08-10-2012, 09:26 AM

Is this something that's already built, or just in the planing stages?
Is this a permited job?

parman · 08-10-2012, 09:38 AM

** I could be mistaken **

I believe you could put the receptacles in the location you suggest.

The only sticking point I can think of are the receptacles must be no higher than 20" above the counter space. Or no lower than 12" below the counter.

You could put them recessed into the top of the counter. You also could put "dog houses" on top of the counter. Both either ugly or not a good idea.

Call your local electrical inspector. They are there to help and even though the NEC may allow it, they may not.

MushCreek · 08-10-2012, 10:04 AM

This is new construction, and is permitted and inspected. The design is finalized, but changes could be made. At this point, about the only change I could easily make would be to reduce the angle of the flare, or eliminate it altogether. The 20" rule is no problem, as the bottom of the window is only 2" above the counter. I would put the outlets near the outermost section of the flare. I will ask the inspector, of course, but they are hard to get a hold of, and I don't like to ask them questions to which there is an obvious answer.

Can the outlets near the range actually be over the range? There is about 3" of wall between the window flare and the range on each side. If it's too tight, I could move the outlet up the wall to clear the range, and still be within the 20" envelope. I don't like the idea of outlets that close to the range, though. Too much risk of a looping cord coming to rest on a hot burner. I kind of like the aspect of putting them on the window return, since the appliance plug would then be behind the plane of the wall, leaving more counter space.

Here is a section view of the wall assembly, showing the proposed outlet location. The counter top would be at the bottom in this view.

andrew79 · 08-10-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parman

** I could be mistaken **

I believe you could put the receptacles in the location you suggest.

The only sticking point I can think of are the receptacles must be no higher than 20" above the counter space. Or no lower than 12" below the counter.

You could put them recessed into the top of the counter. You also could put "dog houses" on top of the counter. Both either ugly or not a good idea.

Call your local electrical inspector. They are there to help and even though the NEC may allow it, they may not.

Probably a non issue but the receptacles mounted face up on the counter is a no no unless that's just a cec rule.

Msradell · 08-10-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MushCreek

This is new construction, and is permitted and inspected. The design is finalized, but changes could be made. At this point, about the only change I could easily make would be to reduce the angle of the flare, or eliminate it altogether. The 20" rule is no problem, as the bottom of the window is only 2" above the counter. I would put the outlets near the outermost section of the flare. I will ask the inspector, of course, but they are hard to get a hold of, and I don't like to ask them questions to which there is an obvious answer.

Can the outlets near the range actually be over the range? There is about 3" of wall between the window flare and the range on each side. If it's too tight, I could move the outlet up the wall to clear the range, and still be within the 20" envelope. I don't like the idea of outlets that close to the range, though. Too much risk of a looping cord coming to rest on a hot burner. I kind of like the aspect of putting them on the window return, since the appliance plug would then be behind the plane of the wall, leaving more counter space.

Here is a section view of the wall assembly, showing the proposed outlet location. The counter top would be at the bottom in this view.

Putting them in the angle like you show won't be a code problem as long as you meet the height requirements. I don't have the code in front of me but I don't believe they are allowed over the stove under any circumstance.

Missouri Bound · 08-10-2012, 12:13 PM

Other than physically able to install a box there there are no issues. It must be a GFCI however. Seems like the structure may give you a bit of a headache with the install.

parman · 08-10-2012, 12:39 PM

Can the outlets near the range actually be over the range?
---No..Receptacle outlets for the counter top are to be mounted above the counter top - except for the exception which allows below mounting.

Probably a non issue but the receptacles mounted face up on the counter is a no no unless that's just a cec rule.
--Technically correct, except there are listed and approved "Pop-up" style receptacles that are acceptable as a flush mount type installation.

MushCreek · 08-10-2012, 01:18 PM

Thanks! Mounting them won't be an issue, since I am the one building all of that structure around the window. The area around the outlet is all non-structural; it's just a matter of notching out the wood, which will be much easier as I build the window openings rather than after the fact. I'm building an ICF house myself, so I can do whatever I want, provided it 1) meets code, and 2) The wife approves it. I will try to make sure my inspector is happy with it before I proceed. I am close to the point where I will be building the window surrounds, so I need to find out soon.

Missouri Bound · 08-10-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MushCreek

The wife approves it.

I see you have your priorities in order.....