Outlet Location For Washing Machine - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Is there an NEC requirement for the location or accessibility of the outlet for a washing machine? I've reviewed the NEC code (section 210 I believe) and it's not quite clear to me. First it seems to say that the outlet for a cord & plug appliance must be accessible, but then it goes on to say that if it isn't accessible, it needs to satisfy a different section of the code.

I'm installing a countertop over a front load washer and (gas) dryer and I'd like to add an outlet below the countertop so that the washer and dryer electrical cords are out-of-view. Currently, the outlet is above the hot and cold water pipes that feed the washing machine. Consequently, the outlet is higher than my planned countertop height. If I must continue to use that outlet, I'll have to cut a hole in the countertop and add a grommet.

This is in a dedicated main floor laundry room in a single family dwelling in Michigan.

Thank you,
Mark (new diy member and first post)

Advertisement

markinmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 10:46 AM   #2
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


it's an early morning (in my head anyway) and the code sections you refer to elude me. Any chance you can cite the sections you are speaking of?


btw: welcome aboard the board. Where-a-bouts in Michigan are you from? We have several members, including myself, in Michigan.

Advertisement

nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 11:36 AM   #3
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 8,048
Rewards Points: 2,894
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Acessible according to the NEC is different than Websters defines it. NEC accesible means not having to remove building finishes nor permanently closed in by building finishes. The washer is not permanant.

The NEC does have a requirement that the receptacle be located within 6' of the intended location of the machine.

Are the hoses coming up thru the countertop?
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 12:22 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


nap and Jim,

Thanks for the quick replies.

nap, the applicable code that is (or was) unclear to me is below. (I live in Rochester.)

Jim, thanks for clarifying the NEC definition of accessible. So by that definition, the washer is not considered permanent and an "out-of-view" receptacle is still considered accessible. Is this correct?

The 6' rqmt is no problem.

I did not plan to bring the water hoses thru the countertop. I was actually thinking of having the countertop on some type of rollers or slide system to access the hot/cold shutoffs. Any idea if this violates a plumbing code?

422.33 Disconnection of Cord-and-Plug-Connected
Appliances.
(A) Separable Connector or an Attachment Plug and
Receptacle. For cord-and-plug-connected appliances, an
accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and
receptacle shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting
means. Where the separable connector or plug and
receptacle are not accessible, cord-and-plug-connected
appliances shall be provided with disconnecting means in
accordance with 422.31.

422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appliances.
(A) Rated at Not Over 300 Volt-Amperes or Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated at not over 300 volt-amperes or hp, the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.
(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or Horsepower. For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes or hp, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.

Also, do you know if a typical non-commercial washing machine over or under 300 Volt-Amperes?

Thanks again! I like this site already!

markinmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 01:30 PM   #5
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


the permanently connected does not apply because it is cord and plug connected. Permanently refers to hardwired appliances.

the plug serves as the disconnect in your case.



the washer recep in the case of a washer is considered accessible even if below the counter. It appears you have a code book available. If so, look up "accessible" in section 100 definitions. That will belay your concerns.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2009, 11:38 PM   #6
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Let me add the other thing about the landruy room { Nap check that part to be sure it is legit in your state due I know the OP is the same state as you are }

Per modern code the landury room it have to be on 20 amp circuit that serve the recetaples nothing else out of that room and I am pretty sure you will have to use the GFCI as well

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 12:16 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brooklyn, New York (NYC)
Posts: 1,124
Rewards Points: 500
Lightbulb

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by markinmich View Post
Is there an NEC requirement for the location or accessibility of the outlet for a washing machine? I've reviewed the NEC code (section 210 I believe) and it's not quite clear to me. First it seems to say that the outlet for a cord & plug appliance must be accessible, but then it goes on to say that if it isn't accessible, it needs to satisfy a different section of the code.

I'm installing a countertop over a front load washer and (gas) dryer and I'd like to add an outlet below the countertop so that the washer and dryer electrical cords are out-of-view. Currently, the outlet is above the hot and cold water pipes that feed the washing machine. Consequently, the outlet is higher than my planned countertop height. If I must continue to use that outlet, I'll have to cut a hole in the countertop and add a grommet.

This is in a dedicated main floor laundry room in a single family dwelling in Michigan.

Thank you,
Mark (new diy member and first post)
An outlet behind (non-fixed) movable appliances is considered "ACCESSIBLE" in terms of the NEC. Even splice boxes inside a drop ceiling with removable tiles IS considered accessible in the eyes of the NEC (of course not in a physical sense...) (No matter what) Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!

Last edited by spark plug; 11-29-2009 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Misspelling (Typo)
spark plug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 12:41 PM   #8
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


The code requires a plug for the washer, it does not care if you mount it at ~48in or if you mount it on the floor just as long as it is there.

volt-amps = fancy term for watts
Most likely -read garentteed you areover 300watts which is about 2.5 amps


so to sum it up just install the plug below countertop, and you will be fine. Same would go for an electric dryer. Can't answer aboout the plumbing tho.


And so it goes, R
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 01:29 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


To all, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise!

Another question: I understand that the NEC is the national code, but does anyone know how the code system segments from there? State code?, County code?, City code?, Subdivision code?.

nap, thanks for referring me to section 100 (Definitions). It is interesting to note that there is a definition for "accessible" and another definition for "readily accessible".

Thanks again,
Mark
markinmich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 02:49 PM   #10
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by markinmich View Post
nap, thanks for referring me to section 100 (Definitions). It is interesting to note that there is a definition for "accessible" and another definition for "readily accessible".
Ya, don't ya love it?

In Michigan, they accept the national code with a few alterations. That would be these:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dl...n_295688_7.pdf

If you go down to section 801 it explains what was excepted out of the NEC and the rest of the rules implemented in this new code cycle.

I believe there are a few municipalities that do have their own version of the code although not positive of it. I don't deal with any of them being in SW Mi so I cannot say with certainty one way or the other.


BTW: 2008 NEC (with exceptions and other items in Part 8 rules) is in effect starting in December in MI (at least that is what the electrical and building inspectors from my area have told me)


Marc. I did not find anything about a 20 amp circuit being required for the washing machine. That rule does sound familiar somewhere along the line but I cannot find support for it yet.


One thing you need to take note of concerning the recep. I have had different inspectors require different things

1. it does not have to be GFCI because it is dedicated. (if I remember the code section correctly)
2. to qualify for dedicated, (and this is where the different inspectors allow a couple different things) the recep cannot be a duplex but must be a single recep.

That may be where the dedicated circuit Marc and I are thinking of comes in to play. The recep AND circuit must be dedicated for it to not be GFCI.

Now, I have had inspectors allow a duplex as long as it is behind the washer. I have also had inspectors allow you to split the duplex and leave 1 recep NON-FUNCTIONAL and thereby making, effectively, a single recep.

or, of course you can put in a single recep but they usually several times that of a typical recep and many people don't like spending the extra dollars.

Last edited by nap; 11-29-2009 at 02:52 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 03:26 PM   #11
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 8,048
Rewards Points: 2,894
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


The requirement for the 20 amp laundry circuit is located in Article 210.11(C)(2).
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 04:57 PM   #12
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The requirement for the 20 amp laundry circuit is located in Article 210.11(C)(2).

yep, right where it's supposed to be. thanks for finding that Jim.


and yes, it states a dedicated circuit and yep, it's a 20 amp circuit.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 09:32 PM   #13
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturday Cowboy View Post
The code requires a plug for the washer,
Actually it does not require a "plug" for the washer, it requires at least one 120v-20a receptacle for the laundry.

Small details I know, but accuracy of information is important.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2009, 10:00 PM   #14
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 105
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Actually it does not require a "plug" for the washer, it requires at least one 120v-20a circuit for the laundry.

Small details I know, but accuracy of information is important.
Fixed that for you. If we're gonna be accurate, we should be accurate.
EBFD6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 07:14 AM   #15
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

Outlet location for washing machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by EBFD6 View Post
Fixed that for you. If we're gonna be accurate, we should be accurate.
No, receptacle WAS accurate. I guess "receptacle & circuit" would have been most accurate.



210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
(F) Laundry Areas.
In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry.



And yes, the required receptacle must be on a 20A "laundry" circuit, which is 210.11(C)(2).

(2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.

Advertisement

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.

Last edited by Speedy Petey; 11-30-2009 at 07:16 AM.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garage outlet location redrumliny Electrical 7 09-05-2009 09:53 AM
Wahing Machine Outlet joedadog Electrical 21 01-17-2009 02:22 PM
Adding new ceiling light in place of switched outlet XavierG35 Electrical 2 02-13-2008 10:05 PM
New coaxial outlet location shimkc Home Theater 1 01-03-2008 10:55 PM
Outlet for pitching machine outdoors NREMTP Electrical 11 06-28-2006 07:18 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts