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Old 10-30-2013, 11:56 AM   #1
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


I'm planning to install some cabinets & countertop in an area which is currently an eat-in nook (not part of the actual kitchen). Since the window sits too low to have standard height base cabinets, I'm installing vanity height cabinets (31-1/8"H x 20-3/4"D). Do I need to install an outlet "above" the counter or can I install it inside the cabinet (& drill hole in my countertop for any cords)? The area is 86"W (see pic).
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #2
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


You'd need to post a layout to be sure it's not considered kitchen. But, if it will be used as an adjunct kitchen space, like putting a buffet there with all kinds of crockpots and warmers, or a coffee station, or a charging station for all of the electronic stuff available today, then it needs outlets.

In other words, it's not going to be very useful without outlets there! Place them on both the sidewalls if that exterior wall is mostly studs supporting the window header.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:39 PM   #3
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


What is the height from the floor to the bottom of the window? You might get by in your area with placing the outlets on the wall to the left & to the right, and possibly squeezing a set to the left & right of the window, as long as there is enough space in those stud bays.

Draw in finished cabinet height (ie. a Red or Green line depicting height, with the height put in, which is cabinets with counter in that picture), then we can go from there. You may have to place them horizontal, but without you knowing the construction under the windows, how they were framed, you hare just throwing balls into a Hurricane. What that means is that it will come to slap you in the face, unless you know what is behind that drywall.

If you plan on coming off that outlet that is already there, you would have to cut the back of the cabinet, to allow access to that junction box cover.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:50 PM   #4
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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You'd need to post a layout to be sure it's not considered kitchen.
If the room is a kitchen. pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area it will need standard counter top receptacle spacing...no point on the counter to be more than 2' from the nearest receptacle.

To satisfy this code in this case, I would cut that existing recept into the back of the cabinet, change the recept to a GFI and feed a piece of Plugmold just under the lip of the counter.

edit: GFI protection would (most likely) not be needed for this counter top
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Last edited by k_buz; 10-30-2013 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:10 PM   #5
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


I'd never use them unless I had to, but have you considered floor outlets mounted in the countertop??
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:16 PM   #6
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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I'd never use them unless I had to, but have you considered floor outlets mounted in the countertop??
Can't have upwards facing receptacles in a counter.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:36 PM   #7
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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I'd never use them unless I had to, but have you considered floor outlets mounted in the countertop??
Not allowable. There are those new tombstones, which hide inside the cabinet, then when you push down on them, they pop-up, and are supposed to be legal for countertop use, but up to your local to decide.

We have discussed these on here before http://www.jlconline.com/countertops...er-outlet.aspx Carlon's version http://www.cupboardsonline.com/2012/...eceptacle.html
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #8
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


I wonder how many people have cut holes in their counters for these pop up type receptacles, only to realize that they will be in the way of the drawers.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:08 PM   #9
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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I wonder how many people have cut holes in their counters for these pop up type receptacles, only to realize that they will be in the way of the drawers.
Depends on how deep the drawers are. If your countertop fabricator knows that you are putting them in, and the cabinets are in place, they can usually account for them.

But you are correct that you have to be smart enough to know how deep your drawers are going to be, since most go all the way back with very little room left. I would imagine that they are used in most situations, the pop-ups are used in cabinets without any drawers in them.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #10
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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I wonder how many people have cut holes in their counters for these pop up type receptacles, only to realize that they will be in the way of the drawers.
A cabinet maker or a DIY wood worker with minimum tools can modify the draws
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:38 AM   #11
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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Can't have upwards facing receptacles in a counter.
Thanks. I didn't know that. Makes sense though.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:27 AM   #12
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


Thank you all for your replies and suggestions! The cabinets for that area will span "wall-to-wall" (two 30"W drawer/door base, one 24"W drawer base, fillers on both ends). Again, these are vanity cabinets (31-1/8"H, 21-3/4"D) I'll be installing since standard kitchen height cabinets (34-1/2") would be too tall for that area. I don't plan on using it as an extension of the kitchen. No kitchen counter appliances will go there. Perhaps just a small desk lamp at most.

The dimensions for the nook area area 87"W (wall-to-wall), 24-1/2"D, 33"H (floor to bottom of window trim).

I'm thinking of having the cabinet installer cut a hole at the back on my cabinet to expose the current outlet, have the countertop fabricator drill a 1" diameter hole in the countertop with a grommet -OR- close off the current outlet and install a new one of either the left or ride side wall.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


I would talk to the inspector before going too far. Easier to make changes before the cabinets are installed and countertop drilled and find out it fails.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:24 PM   #14
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


so total span is 84" ...if you put them in the window wall if there is no studs there or in the side walls most inspectors will usually let this go ...


the room is a "dining" room correct .. if so KITCHEN specs would not apply
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:52 AM   #15
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Outlet location for cabinets & counter?


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the room is a "dining" room correct .. if so KITCHEN specs would not apply
Yes they would aside from GFI protection.

Quote:
(C) Countertops. In kitchens, pantries, breakfast rooms,
dining rooms, and similar areas of dwelling units, receptacle
outlets for countertop spaces shall be installed in accordance
with 210.52(C)(1) through (C)(5).
(1) Wall Countertop Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be
installed at each wall countertop space that is 300 mm
(12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so
that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm
(24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in
that space.

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