DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Electrical (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/)
-   -   Outdoor Wiring Question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/outdoor-wiring-question-152809/)

OKDrew63 08-06-2012 10:49 AM

Outdoor Wiring Question
 
I've searched and read several threads on outdoor wiring for a hot tub and have a plan in mind but still have a question on running the wire.

I'm installing an outdoor hot tub on a deck I'm building and I'm running 6/3 copper (240V) in 1" schedule 40 PVC underground from the main panel to the hot tub disconnect that has a 60 amp GFCI and 20 amp GFCI in it. The disconnect will be a little over 6' from the hot tub. I need to run the 6/3 wire from the disconnect to the tub and that will be under the deck, so does this need to go 18" underground as well for this 6-7' length or will under the deck in secured conduit be sufficient?

Same question for the 20 amp circuit. I'm installing an outlet about 4' from the tub disconnect, running the wire out of the panel, underneath the deck and then up into the box, all in conduit (liquid tight I'm thinking). Do I need to go 18" underground for this run?

One more question. Coming from the main panel, do all 4 of the 6/3 wires need to be 6 ga, or can the ground be 8 ga or even 10 ga? I've seen conflicting answers in other posts.

Thanks.

andrew79 08-06-2012 11:26 AM

easier to run all 6 gauge, conduit under the deck should be fine if it's uf cable. you 6/3 in a one inch pipe is no good though. would be fine if your pulling in single conductors but not nm or uf cable.

OKDrew63 08-06-2012 12:19 PM

It'll be single cable, THHN. If I'm running all THHN, am I still good under the deck?

Jim Port 08-06-2012 01:09 PM

To Andrew, the NEC does not allow UF to feed a hot tub. The EGC must be insulated.

Conduit secured to the deck framing should be fine. No need to bury the conduit.

Technical nitpick: the conductors need to be THWN, although most THHN is dual rated THHN/THWN.

OKDrew63 08-06-2012 01:45 PM

Thanks for the help.

Jim, it was my understanding that THHN is typically rated THWN as well, that's what I'm counting on, but I'll verify before I drop a couple hundred on the wire.

Does liquid tight have a maximum length usage of 6'?

Jim Port 08-06-2012 01:50 PM

Yes, there is a 6' limit for flex. I have stubbed under the skirt with PVC and then switched to flex to keep the length down.

andrew79 08-06-2012 02:18 PM

Thanks Jim, learned another new thing today :). I assumed because he said 6/3 he was running some type of romex. The bit about the uf I'll file away in my usefull knowledge folder.
Sidebarr: you guys do still have to follow conduit fill with sheathed cable yes? 1inch would be way too small for 6/3 cable.

OKDrew63 08-06-2012 02:38 PM

Can't say that I know code verbatim, but everything I've read has said that 4 wires, THHN and all 6 ga, would be fine in 1" schedule 40 PVC.

Jump in here if I'm going down the wrong road.
Thanks.

andrew79 08-06-2012 03:08 PM

that should be fine, it's your terminology, 6/3 means 3 wires in the same sheath, your running 3 number 6 conductors. that will fit in a 1 inch no prob.

Jim Port 08-06-2012 03:29 PM

When sleeving a cable in a conduit the fill is based on the width of the cable.

BTW, an uninsulated but covered EGC like in NM or UF would be allowed for the interior portions of the hot tub feeder.

stickboy1375 08-06-2012 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Port (Post 982806)
Yes, there is a 6' limit for flex.

Jim, do you have a code section on the limit? Im not seeing it. Seems to me it can be as long as needed as long as it is supported.

Jim Port 08-06-2012 04:21 PM

Here you go from the 2011. Note that this has changed since the 2008.

680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors
shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this
article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would
otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

(A) Flexible Connections.
Listed packaged spa or hot tub
equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs
utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or
panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as
covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).

(1) Flexible Conduit.
Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or
liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted
in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) external to the spa
or hot tub enclosure in addition to the length needed within

the enclosure to make the electrical connection.

From the 2008:

680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed
outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II
of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B),
that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

(A) Flexible Connections.
Listed packaged spa or hot tub
equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs
utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or
panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as
covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).

(1) Flexible Conduit.
Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or
liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted

in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft).

stickboy1375 08-06-2012 04:26 PM

Thanks Jim, I got hung up on Art. 356....

OKDrew63 08-06-2012 05:31 PM

While we're discussing my electrical issue, I have another question, which is about the location of the disconnect panel/box. Since this is considered a portable hot tub, single family dwelling and installed outside, just what is the requirement for the disconnect location?

680.41 Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs. In other than a single-family dwelling, a clearly labeled emergency spa or hot tub water recirculation and jet system shutoff must be supplied. The emergency shutoff must be readily accessible to the users and located not less than 5 ft away, but adjacent to and within sight of the spa or hot tub.


680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. A maintenance disconnecting means is required for the permanently installed pool, storable pool, outdoor spa, outdoor hot tub, or fountain equipment, other than lighting for these water bodies. The maintenance disconnecting means must be readily accessible and located within sight and at least 5 ft from the permanently installed pool, storable pool, outdoor spa, outdoor hot tub, or fountain equipment unless separated from the open water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a 5 ft reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is measured from the water’s edge along the shortest path required to reach the disconnecting means.

I'm installing the tub on a deck with basically a fence (privacy fence) on all sides. Does the disconnect need to be in line of sight or can I install it on the side of the house next to the deck, but on the outside of the privacy panels? Close but not seen from the tub.
Thanks.

stickboy1375 08-06-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKDrew63 (Post 982946)
While we're discussing my electrical issue, I have another question, which is about the location of the disconnect panel/box. Since this is considered a portable hot tub, single family dwelling and installed outside, just what is the requirement for the disconnect location?

680.41 Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs. In other than a single-family dwelling, a clearly labeled emergency spa or hot tub water recirculation and jet system shutoff must be supplied. The emergency shutoff must be readily accessible to the users and located not less than 5 ft away, but adjacent to and within sight of the spa or hot tub.


680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. A maintenance disconnecting means is required for the permanently installed pool, storable pool, outdoor spa, outdoor hot tub, or fountain equipment, other than lighting for these water bodies. The maintenance disconnecting means must be readily accessible and located within sight and at least 5 ft from the permanently installed pool, storable pool, outdoor spa, outdoor hot tub, or fountain equipment unless separated from the open water by a permanently installed barrier that provides a 5 ft reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is measured from the water’s edge along the shortest path required to reach the disconnecting means.

I'm installing the tub on a deck with basically a fence (privacy fence) on all sides. Does the disconnect need to be in line of sight or can I install it on the side of the house next to the deck, but on the outside of the privacy panels? Close but not seen from the tub.
Thanks.


Ignore the emergency switch, you only need a maintenance disconnect.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 PM.


Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved