Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-14-2008, 12:02 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Share |
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


Hello to All,

Years ago the house was fed by water from 220v on the property. The house has long been converted over to city water and the well has not operated in many years.

We have a small 8"x8" storage building over the well. What we would like to do is add a small sub-panel using the well wiring. We only want to be able to have a light and perhaps a single outlet in this bulding and would put a "main breaker in the panel that is rated no higher than the current break in the house feeding things.

I understand how sub-panels should not have the neutral and the grounds tied together and that the ground should go directly to a grounding rod at the building.

The well only has two "hots" with no neutral or ground run from the house to this building. My assumption is that the well used its own grounding and neutral since nothing ties back to the house.

Ordinarily with a sub panel, you would run a separate neutral to tie back into the main service panel at the neutral bar. If a ground had been run from the house, you could use it to tie to the ground bar in the sub-panel (being certain to keep the neutral and ground bars in the sub-panel separate) or run a ground rod by the building for the sub-panel.

So here are the questions..

Neutrals are normally provided by the power company at the service entrance from what I have seen and understand.

1) With only two hots running to this storage building, what is the appropriate way to handle the neutral? and ground?

2) Would it be acceptable to drive my own ground rod and create my own neutral? and ground?

3) Would using the well casing suffice for one or both? It works for the well so it should work for the sub-panel?

Thoughts/Ideas in general?

Mark

mrwhatif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 12:29 PM   #2
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,439
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


1.Run a new cable with neutral and ground. The well pump was straight 240 volts and did not require a neutral.

2. ABSOLUTLEY NOT

3. ABSOLUTELY NOT

joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 01:58 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,503
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


Since the well is no longer used, are you sure you need a sub panel? You could run a multi wire or single circuit to the well house. 2 - 20 amp circuits or 1 sharing the same neutral. You still need a double pole breaker like the one you have. What size is the breaker that fed the pump motor.
As joed said you will need four wires for the sub or the multi wire circuit. Then you can just install a small disconnect inside or outside the well house. In my opinion a sub panel is not needed in an 8x8 structure.
The multi wire circuit as well as the sub panel will allow as many outlets as you like.

What is the distance from the main service panel to the well house. We may have to figure voltage drop if it is very far away.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 02:33 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


The storage building/well is about 100' from the house. The wiring runs under a deck and some concrete. Basically there are just two hots, with no neutral or ground, from the house to the well. These two hots run from a standard 220v dual-pole breaker in the house. The 220v breaker is a 20amp unit.

My hopes were to be able to use these two hots for a light and an outlet in the building without having to run more wire. If it can be wired properly and safely, it only makes sense to use it rather than start from scratch.

My initial thoughts were to just feed a very small sub panel with the two hots and treat them as a mini-service-entrance and then put a couple of 120v breakers in this panel for a light and an outlet. If it was ever decided to get the well back into service, the 120v breakers could be pulled and the sub-panel could go back to feeding the well pump just like it did in the past.

The part that I am struggling with is the neutral and ground.

I may not be able to make any of it work and that is why I wanted to bounce some ideas off of you guys.

I really appreciate the thoughts and ideas...

Mark

Last edited by mrwhatif; 07-14-2008 at 02:48 PM.
mrwhatif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 02:38 PM   #5
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,539
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


Are these two wires in cable or conduit? What color are they? It may be possible to reconfigure this as a 120V circuit and feed it from a GFCI breaker.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 02:45 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


The wires are black and red. It appears to be a romex type of wire with sheathing and whatnot. There doesnt appear to be any conduit. The well pump and whatnot are located on a concrete pad and the wire comes up through the concrete beside the cold water pipe running from the pump to the house.

There is no ground wire or whatnot coming out of the sheathing that is being used. That is not to say that there isn't a ground wire in the sheathing somewhere but just cut back and taped over.

They taped over the romex and then hooked the black and red wire to the pump regulator. I have not cut the tape back to inspect the actual inerts of the romex.
mrwhatif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 03:04 PM   #7
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,539
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


Looks like running a new UF type cable is your best bet.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2008, 04:43 PM   #8
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,439
Default

Out-building / Well Wiring / Sub-Panel


Black and red are not permitted to be used a neutral wires. New cable is the only option.

joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding a second Electric sub panel TW Lucas Electrical 9 10-05-2008 02:37 AM
Replacement Meter Panel leonard_voet Electrical 19 04-09-2008 10:27 AM
Installing new (service?) breaker panel and generator panel Nhrafan Electrical 6 04-01-2008 03:03 PM
Building wiring fault jaasman Electrical 7 03-19-2008 07:07 PM
Subpanel installation in outbuilding fls Electrical 19 03-16-2008 02:19 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.