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Opinions of Ideal push-in wire connectors

82K views 64 replies 32 participants last post by  chandler48 
#1 ·
For the last 18 months or so I have used nothing but Ideal push-in connectors for wiring connections in J-boxes. They are much easier to install than wire nuts, and, IMO, better for a DIY project in that they are easy to inspect to make sure the wire is installed solidly. I have read up on them, and they use a different connection system than the infamous 'back-stabbed' receptacles. From what I have read, there have been no reports of problems with Ideal connectors. If there is such a report, please post a link because I couldn't find it.

Anyway, one concern that has been raised is that they 'may' not be up to high amp loads. This winter, I ran a 1500W space heater in the basement pretty much 12 hours a day. The circuit was one I ran and connected with Ideals. After the circuit had run for many hours, I opened the J-Box and put a ammeter clamp on the hot wire and got a reading of 14 amps on the circuit. The connectors were cool to the touch and looked exactly the same as the day I had put them in, six months before.

As far as I can tell, these things work as advertised. I know they are rated and approved for connections and are routinely used in new construction residential projects. Please post your opinions on these connectors. Thanks.

Here is a box in my basement with them used for the connections. I used connectors with extra slots so I could add a circuit later.
 

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#3 ·
I understand. I would not presume to give advice to a professional on this matter. However, I do know that our inspectors pass installations made with these because they are 'listed for the use' by UL For a DIY project (non-professional) I believe they are a better choice, in that to ensure the connection is solid, all you have to do is make sure you can see the copper wire in the clear area at the end of the connector. Our inspectors like them too, as they are easy to inspect.

For what it's worth, a Master Electrician I know feels the same way as you, and will used only wire nuts.
 
#6 ·
Here's another pic of the Ideal 'In-Sure'
http://www.efc-solutions.com/pdf/wireconnectors.pdf

They have been around a while, at least four years

Might be a good idea to pick some up

One area is where you come across a box where some handyman has cut the wires super short.

The Ideal 'In-Sure' should make an easier, faster connection where you can visually verify the contact
 
#7 ·
I had no trouble pulling out a push-in connection in my dad's panel that was made with one of those things. It was about as easy as pulling out a push-in connection on, say, a 48 cent P&S single-pole toggle. Just to be safe, I threw it away and replaced it with a wire nut. When I see push-in connections, I think "lazy electrician."

I'm not an electrician, but I am a perfectionist. It annoys me when I see some of the shortcuts some hired professionals make.
 
#8 ·
Wire can be pulled out of the connection. They are designed to resist a 'straight pull' but if you hold the connector, then twist the wire with wire pliers and pull at the same time the wire comes out easily. Quite ingenious.

I understand the opinion that they are somehow 'less than.' This opinion is widely shared with those in the profession. What I would like to find out is proof that they are. In my experience (admittedly limited) they have performed quite well, with zero problems of any kind that I have observed.

For what it is worth, I work in Codes and Regulations (not in electrical) and we (Metro Louisville) have approved these for years with no documented failures in any circuit, ever.
 
#11 ·
First time I used them, I noticed that the wires would turn inside the connector as I pushed it into the box. Looking inside the connector, the wires are now leaning to the left or right, depending on the way the wire is being stressed from outside the connector. That's not a good feeling for me.

I use them for existing grounds that have been cut short, otherwise I use wirenuts.
 
#14 ·
i won't use 'backstabbed spring clip' outlets. found them loose too many times......
but i WILL use what i THOUGHT at first was 'spring clipped' until the wire fell back out and i realised that you had to screw the side screw tight to clamp the wire inside.
twist/wirenut/tape still seems to me to be the most secure for JBs though.

DM
 
#20 ·
Ive been seeing these wire connectors more prevalant in Halo and other recessed can lights as well. We just cut them off and hard wire all our can lights.
Wow. I LOVE the connectors built into the cans. Wham bam.

I/we still use wire nuts but I am getting really tired of twisting the damn things. My hands get cramp after a while. If I did more new construction, I would probably make the switch. In remodel/rework, we are always adding/relocating things. Wirenuts are easily reversible for rework and testing. When they come up with a push in connector that has a mechanism to simply pop it off, I will use it.
 
#23 ·
I have seen a few of these in some recent installations. I even keep some of the 2-hole variety on hand for quick ballast changes. Real handy for that.

We have also used them to repair real short wires in an outlet box -- very useful for when the conductor breaks with little slack left to connect to your switch or outlet. :)

While some here believe that these are inferior to using wire-nuts, I can tell you that I have seen many cases where wire nuts failed and were melted or burned to a crisp.

OTOH, I have never seen any of these particular connectors burned out. :huh:

Time will tell, as they say. :whistling2:
 
#25 · (Edited)
While some here believe that these are inferior to using wire-nuts, I can tell you that I have seen many cases where wire nuts failed and were melted or burned to a crisp.

OTOH, I have never seen any of these particular connectors burned out. :huh:

Time will tell, as they say. :whistling2:
Right. Time will tell. With the ubiquity of the Internet I would think there would be plenty of examples of failed push-in connectors that could be found, if, in fact, they tend to fail. Do a search on "stab in receptacles" and you can find plenty of examples. Lots of pictures of melted wire nuts too, but usually the wire nut isn't defective, it was just installed incorrectly or was subject to an excessively high current. I know that push-in connectors are widely used. Las Vegas hotels are full of them, not to mention just about every single new single or multi-family residential development built in the last 5 years. I have heard gripes about them, suspicions raised about them, etc. but I have yet to see one single example of where one failed. If someone can post a link to a failure, please do so.

Oh, I forgot to add.... push-in connectors are great for connecting new THHN to old BX conductors. I do most of my work in old houses and I have come across some awful wiring. What I do is use a push-in, two hole connector to splice a piece of modern THHN to the old wire. Then I am working only with new, good wire, and not disturbing the old, frayed, falling apart wire made in, oh, 1947. Here is what I found in my house. I ended up replacing this completely.
 

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#26 ·
Ditto on the number of failed back-stabbed switches and receptacles. I have lost count of `em. :mad:

Slater was the worst offender, followed by the old P&S devices. The new P&S devices are much more improved, so do not lump those in with those old pieces of junk that used to be installed 20 years ago.
 
#27 ·
The back stabbed devices today are supposedly much improved, and rated only for 14 gauge wire. I have never used back stabbing, and pay a little more for the back wired (screw down with side screws after pushing the wire in the back, like a GFCI). The back wired devices seem the best to me. Now THAT is a solid connection. I can't imagine it coming loose.
 
#28 ·
Interesting thread. I too have been using the Ideal push ins for about two years, easy to use, and they seem pretty solid. But just to be sure, I always tape the connection, at least once around the Ideal push in and a couple times around the wires. Call me paranoid, but as in a previous post, I don't lose any sleep over having defense in depth on an electrical connection. And yes, I had a loose neutral due to a back stabbed plug, very unhappy experience, I still don't trust back stabbed outlets, even if they claim to be improved.
 
#31 ·
To me this is a similar argument to the plumbing problems using plastic pipe vs. copper. Not too long ago the only fresh water piping a plumber would use was copper- often they would bad mouth anything else. Now after repeated successes with pex, this seems as if it is becoming the new standard in many homes. I'm not saying other flex pipes didn't have their problems which they did, but there is such a thing as progress. I was never a proponent to backstabbed receptacles but enjoy the back wired ones (with screw down clamps). I'm sure over time and refinements the push-in connectors will be accepted by newer electricians- much like newer plumbers installing 4" pvc DWV over oakum and lead sealed cast iron drain lines!
 
#32 · (Edited)
Can someone explain to me why the push in substitutes for wire nuts work better than back stab connections for switches and receptacles? I have dissected some of each and the innards looked the same. The wire goes down a plastic channel touches a brass strip on one side connected (bonded) to the rest of the device and a spring strip at an angle coming from the other side of the channel holds the wire supposedly in good contact. (The items were not Ideal brand so maybe that is the difference.)

Now I am not condemning them; I just don't use them myself.
 

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#33 · (Edited)
Can someone explain to me why the push in substitutes for wire nuts work better than back stab connections for switches and receptacles? I have dissected some of each and the innards looked the same. The wire goes down a plastic channel touches a brass strip on one side connected (bonded) to the rest of the device and a spring strip at an angle coing from the other side of the channel holds the wire supposedly in good contact. (The items were not Ideal brand so maybe that is the difference.)

Now I am not condemning them; I just don't use them myself.
Thanks for the drawing. It got me thinking, "Well, just how do these things work?" In the interests of science, I sacrificed one of my Ideals to find out what made it tick. First, I put a piece of 12 gauge wire in one of the slots, then cut off the plastic casing with a dremel and cut-off wheel. Inside is a square made of two pieces of dissimilar metal. It looks like one piece is copper and the other is steel. The pieces are interconnected in such a way that a constant pressure is maintained by the copper piece on the steel piece. When you push a wire into the hole, it slides between the two pieces, thus establishing a connection to the other wires through the copper piece. There aren't any 'springs' of any kind, just passive pressure from one piece of metal on the other under tension from the way it is fabricated and covered with the plastic shell. The device resists 'straight pull' because the copper plate under tension 'digs into' the wire. If you twist the wire, however, it turns the wire into a self-cutting screw, transfers the force as a twisting motion that 'screws the wire' out of the device. Very interesting how it works.

I will post some pictures to illustrate.

First, a side view of the connector before I cut it open. You can clearly see the copper plate under tension, the steel plate (on the right) and the copper wire pinched between them.

Picture two and three show the connector after I cut the plastic shell off. You can see the copper is interlocked with the steel, to keep the copper under constant tension.

Finally, picture four shows the two pieces of metal separated from one another.

All in all a very ingenious device.
 

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#35 ·
Ideal In-Sure push-in connectors work great !

I have been an electrical contractor for 30+ years. For some reason my fellow electricians do not accept change. When I first started, I would hear stories from the old electricians who first saw a wirenut and didn't trust 'em, and wouldn't use those new-fangled things. They would much rather soldier and tape, or crimp and tape the connections. After that, there were electricians around who would only use the 3-M scotch-lok wirenut, because they were the first and only popular wirenut. They wouldn't be caught dead using an Ideal or any other wirenut, although they were an improvement over the Scoth-lok wirenut. The Scoth-lok was a pain to use, and God help you, if you ever had to remove a Scotch-Lok. But they weren't going to change.

I notice this stubborness in electricians when it comes to new and better tools or materials. They don't like 'em. They are going to stick with the old way of doing things.

I have been using exclusively the Ideal In-Sure push-ins on my #12 and smaller solid wire since they first came out, quite a few years ago. They cannot be compared to the stab-in switch or receptacle. Thay are a completely different design. When disconnecting, they will not pull out. They are designed to twist out. They are designed to carry the feed-thru load. I have not had a single call-back, or a single problem with one. Of course you have to know what you're doing. You have to know what you're doing when you install a wirenut as well. I constantly run into problems with wirenuts and loose connections that someone did not install properly.

Ideal push-ins take up less room in a box, they are much quicker, simpler, and safer, especially when working on hot circuits.

I know, I sound like a salesman.
No, I don't work for Ideal.
Remember Ideal sells a lot more wirenuts.
 
#36 ·
I don't use them exclusively but the ideal's and the Wago's are great products and are very easy and convenient to use. I often suggest them to DIYers for their projects due to their ease of use. Wire nuts are great but they're not a guaranteed good connection...Good installation of a conventional wire nut is reliant on good methods that many DIYers (and even the occasional electrician) do not necessarily employ.
 
#58 ·
I don't use them exclusively but the ideal's and the Wago's are great products and are very easy and convenient to use. I often suggest them to DIYers for their projects due to their ease of use. Wire nuts are great but they're not a guaranteed good connection...Good installation of a conventional wire nut is reliant on good methods that many DIYers (and even the occasional electrician) do not necessarily employ.

Bigplanz thanks for introducing the topic and product. This is a forum for helping DIY ers - and you did.



puttster
 
#37 ·
I think they are crap. I feel like after a tiny bit of oxidization or corrosion or whatever it will be a high resistance connection. Not enough surface contact. I only use them on flouresents since they will probably have the ballast changed in 10 years anyway. I also don't trust wirenuts. I twist every connection with my linemans and use a wire nut to protect it
 
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