Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-15-2013, 10:32 AM   #61
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 1,613
Share |
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
still two poles or L1 and L2 or 2 120 volts 180 degrees out of phase ...
Philly....

Don't have it in front of me.... but as I recall.....

in a vertical row: 4 individual 1" (allright fullsize not twin/tandem or slims) 50A breakers in main section (top of panel)


in vertical order:

breaker 1 on L1
breaker 2 on L2 (handle tied to breaker1)

breaker 3 on L1
breaker 4 on L2 (handle tied to breaker 3)

When I had panel open.... I could swear I remember seeing a total of 4 very neat feeds to two lighting mains and in effect 4 busses total below.

The feeds were very neat and I don't remember if they were lugged onto their busses or factory clamped..... I do remember I wondered if they were field wired or factory done.

I did wonder about the advantage/logic involved. I think it was a 70's panel.

It was a while ago... but I think I'm remembering right. And I am almost certain it was a GE.

Best

Peter
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTN REMODEL LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #62
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Crownsville, MD (AA County)
Posts: 20
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


I'm thinking of a possible alternative to adding a panel in the garage - I've already got one in the utility room. The 90a breaker at the top of my main panel feeds a 12 slot 125a CH subpanel that is located in my utility room. Currently there are only two circuits on this panel, both 240v supplying my furnace, a 60a and a 30a. The wire leading to the panel is: "KAISER ALUMINUM - A TYPE SE CABLE TYPE XHHW CDRS 2 AWG AL 3 CDRS 600 VOLTS UL" it is about 45 feet from the main panel. The idea being that a bunch of the 240v loads in the house (furnace, water heater, dryer, well pump) are right next to each other in the utility room and I supply them power from the sub panel - thus freeing up slots in the main panel (located in the garage) for circuits in the garage.

What ampacity is the above wire, and can I swap a larger (125a) breaker at the main panel to feed this subpanel without changing wire?

Is 125a (or 100a) enough to run any of the other 240 loads off the subpanel? (ask me for any specs that you need.)

furnace (BAYHTR14158RK): circuit 1 - (@240v) 9.6 kW, heater 40a, min branch circuit 55a, max overcurrent 60a
circuit 2 - (@240v) 5.76 kW, heater 24a, min branch circuit 30, max overcurrent 30a

water heater (RHEPRO66-2-A): (@240v) upper 4500W, lower 4500W, total 4500W, currently on 30a circuit

dryer - no idea (average) currently on 30a

well pump - currently on a 240v 15a circuit, that's all I know.

Again, the idea is to free up breaker slots in the garage for 240v 30a and 120v 30a circuits by only changing breakers and wiring up loads myself (staying within my ability.) thanks for any opinions/info. - mark

Last edited by adis; 05-19-2013 at 05:12 PM. Reason: fix data
adis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 05:20 PM   #63
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,121
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by adis View Post
I'm thinking of a possible alternative to adding a panel in the garage - I've already got one in the utility room. The 90a breaker at the top of my main panel feeds a 12 slot 125a CH subpanel that is located in my utility room. Currently there are only two circuits on this panel, both 240v supplying my furnace, a 60a and a 30a. The wire leading to the panel is: "KAISER ALUMINUM - A TYPE SE CABLE TYPE XHHW CDRS 2 AWG AL 3 CDRS 600 VOLTS UL" it is about 45 feet from the main panel. The idea being that a bunch of the 240v loads in the house (furnace, water heater, dryer, well pump) are right next to each other in the utility room and I supply them power from the sub panel - thus freeing up slots in the main panel (located in the garage) for circuits in the garage.

What ampacity is the above wire, and can I swap a larger (125a) breaker at the main panel to feed this subpanel without changing wire?

Is 125a (or 100a) enough to run any of the other 240 loads off the subpanel? (ask me for any specs that you need.)

furnace (BAYHTR14158RK): circuit 1 - (@240v) 9.6 kW, heater 40a, min branch circuit 55a, max overcurrent 60a
circuit 2 - (@240v) 5.76 kW, heater 24a, min branch circuit 30, max overcurrent 30a

water heater (RHEPRO66-2-A): (@240v) upper 4500W, lower 4500W, total 4500W, currently on 30a circuit

dryer - no idea (average) currently on 30a

well pump - currently on a 240v 15a circuit, that's all I know.

Again, the idea is to free up breaker slots in the garage for 240v 30a and 120v 30a circuits by only changing breakers and wiring up loads myself (staying within my ability.) thanks for any opinions/info. - mark
90 amps ....

9600 watts
5760 watts
4500 watts
5000 watts ( dryer )

24,860 watts not counting the well pump

24,860/240 = 103.6 AMPS ....


so No you cannot add all those
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Philly Master For This Useful Post:
adis (06-18-2013)
Old 05-19-2013, 07:47 PM   #64
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Crownsville, MD (AA County)
Posts: 20
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Thanks for the reply, Philly. Let me make sure I've got this right, with the way the subpanel is wired right now, it is not possible to increase the current potential to the subpanel (by adding a larger breaker at the main) and be safely within NEC specs?

How about this: if 90a is the most I can run to the sub panel, and using your quick formula, if I run the furnace and water heater from the sub panel that figures to 83a. Is this a safe load?
adis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #65
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,121
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


i did not look up #2 alum ..... for amp rating ...

what about the loads already there ??
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #66
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,056
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


The feeder to the subpanel would need to be upgraded before you could change the breaker size upward.

No. 2 AL SE is only rated for 90 amps max under the 75 degree column. It would be less under the 60 degree column that may apply depending on the code cycle.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
adis (06-18-2013), Philly Master (05-19-2013)
Old 05-20-2013, 07:58 PM   #67
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Crownsville, MD (AA County)
Posts: 20
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. thanks for the replies, guys!
adis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 05:34 PM   #68
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Crownsville, MD (AA County)
Posts: 20
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Sorry to keep resurrecting this thread guys, but I'm not giving up on a DIY solution to wiring up my garage just yet. Can somebody describe to me what type of breaker it is that is occupying the top 4 slots on my main panel (see the pic in post #1)? It's a 90a dual (?) breaker that is feeding a subpanel that is powering my furnace. Why is it necessary that it take 4 slots? Does it have something to do with the fact that my main panel is a split-bus type? Must it bridge the busses? Is there any reason why I couldn't replace it with a CH 90a two pole (thus freeing up two slots)? Thanks for any information
adis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 07:06 PM   #69
Sparky
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 683
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Just an older style, you can replace with the newer single side CH290, you can only install a 2 pole breaker in the 2 positions made available


Please remember there is no way to disconnect the bussing behind any of the top 6 positions on both sides(2pole taking up 2 positions)
Techy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Techy For This Useful Post:
adis (06-18-2013)
Old 06-11-2013, 07:13 PM   #70
Resi EC
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 478
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


I don't think you can do that, the stabs have ampere rating, using too much on one is not good.
The panel door should show the ampere rating of the buss stabs
Gac66610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 08:24 PM   #71
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 1,613
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Tecy and Gac make good points....Check the panel specs

Techy or anybody... Can anyone tell me why I don't have a "thank you button" or a "multi=quote button" on this computer/site.

TIA

Peter
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTN REMODEL LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #72
Electrical Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 724
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC
Tecy and Gac make good points....Check the panel specs

Techy or anybody... Can anyone tell me why I don't have a "thank you button" or a "multi=quote button" on this computer/site.

TIA

Peter
That's odd. Is it the new Site format? I have it on the iPhone app.
Kyle_in_rure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 09:31 PM   #73
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,452
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure View Post
That's odd. Is it the new Site format? I have it on the iPhone app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Tecy and Gac make good points....Check the panel specs

Techy or anybody... Can anyone tell me why I don't have a "thank you button" or a "multi=quote button" on this computer/site.

TIA

Peter
Should have them.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 09:37 PM   #74
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 1,613
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


Kyle and Beenthere.... Thank you.... I got logged off doing something else... and now both are back.... maybe something I did...

Anyway...Thanks

Peter
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTN REMODEL LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MTN REMODEL LLC For This Useful Post:
Kyle_in_rure (06-11-2013)
Old 06-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #75
Sparky
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 683
Default

Opinions on How to Add Slots to Full Panel


If you thank too many people, you lose your thanks button for a while.
Techy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Garage Sub Panel Questions mscanlon01 Electrical 3 07-20-2011 10:03 AM
Old House Rewire finnimus Electrical 15 05-13-2011 10:39 PM
Renovating basement, main too full: sub panel plan, OK? renoman Electrical 6 08-18-2010 10:32 PM
Main Service Panel Full bobo Electrical 5 09-24-2007 07:13 PM
100A Panel is full...I Need more circuits redly Electrical 2 06-20-2005 06:26 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.