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Old 05-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #46
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I always thought it might be interesting to bring back some sort of "modified" split bus design, so all of your AFCI-required circuits could be protected by one AFCI breaker. The upside would be cost, the downside would be one fault could trip all of your lighting circuits.

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:41 AM   #47
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I always thought it might be interesting to bring back some sort of "modified" split bus design, so all of your AFCI-required circuits could be protected by one AFCI breaker. The upside would be cost, the downside would be one fault could trip all of your lighting circuits.
Not a bad idea on the cost side... except I'm sure that breaker somehow would be mucho $.

My understanding of the primary imputus for AFCI's was to prevent fryed/worn light and appliance cords.... if so.... why don't we just have all our appliance/light cords in FMC Oh sh--, better not give the NEC any ideas.

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:49 AM   #48
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Not a bad idea on the cost side... except I'm sure that breaker somehow would be mucho $.

My understanding of the primary imputus for AFCI's was to prevent fryed/worn light and appliance cords.... if so.... why don't we just have all our appliance/light cords in FMC Oh sh--, better not give the NEC any ideas.

Peter
I personally don't like AFCIs. But I know "code is code" and if they save lives it's worth it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #49
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My understanding of the primary imputus for AFCI's was to prevent fryed/worn light and appliance cords....
Yup. The British already had that solved around WWII though, they put a fuse sized to the appliance in every cord's plug. So they can plug a 1A appliance with a 1A fuse into a 30A (or whatever) receptacle -- when the cord gets pinched or frayed, the fuse blows instead of creating a 30A firestarter.

Christmas lights here in the US have little glass fuses in the plug too (since they use wire that's much too small to be protected by a 15A or 20A breaker). And hair dryers in the US often come with a little GFCI built in to the cord plug. So protecting at the cord plug is not a novel idea, and might save a lot of hassle this AFCI stuff causes.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:22 AM   #50
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Good point Ty...... A little better than my idea we run FMC as appliance cord
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:49 PM   #51
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Anne Arundel County does not have homeowner permits. The OP will need to hire someone with a license to perform the panel change. Also BGE does not allow anyone to cut their meter tags.
Thanks, Jim. I guess its time to start studying for a license...

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"If you're going to do this work yourself, and I'm sure you are..."
Sirsparks, you were spot on.

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"I have no idea what the top left feeders that don't appear to be breakered are... is there a subpanel involved somewhere... but if it's a feed... seems to me it should be breakered. Am I missing something??????"
Peter, from what i can tell, the top 4 slots are used to feed 90a to a sub panel for the furnace.

Mike, i cant send PM's until i hit 15 posts. send me your contact info.

thanks again everyone. im glad that i could at least "spark" a decent thread.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:05 PM   #52
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i knew i shoulda moved to Virginia...
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:11 PM   #53
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So we meet the 6 handle max with the Furnace, Range, Dryer, H2O heater, and last but not least a 50 amp 2 pole feeding the "other bus".
Now looking at the number of and type of circuits the existing lighting bus supplies I would venture to say there is actually a need to complete a load calculation before any type of planning or work is started. I did not run numbers but, 3000va for 2 ea sabc in the kitchen, 1500 for a sabc for the laundry, ac#3, dishwasher, disposal, microwave(is it an exh hood microwave?), how many sq feet is the residence?. Not as I say doing the number crunching, his main power for his home is a 50 amp service and that seems a bit undersized for everything listed and if not than borderline capacity wise. My 2 cents, new panel with main disconnect, branch breaker space in new panel with 2 new feeders for the 2 busses in the old panel. And wow, 90 amp for the furnace, think ground source heat pump and save by the minute.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:12 PM   #54
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I don't want to rain on your parade, but the license normally requires 4 or more years of documented experience in the trade before sitting for the test.

PM me if you need to discuss options.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:07 PM   #55
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Thanks Jim, I was being facetious (shoulda used a smiley.) Can you PM me your info - i need 10 more posts before I'm allowed to PM.

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I don't want to rain on your parade, but the license normally requires 4 or more years of documented experience in the trade before sitting for the test.

PM me if you need to discuss options.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:00 AM   #56
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Dudley, it was common for those split bus panels to be at least 100 amps, 150 and 200 could be possible. The size of the service cable or conductors would need to be checked to see the service size.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:07 AM   #57
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Dudley, it was common for those split bus panels to be at least 100 amps, 150 and 200 could be possible.
As Jim says... The GE (with two lighting 120 buses) is fed by two 50A doubles breakers... so you could say it has 100A to its lighting 120 circuts) can't remember #slots... but plenty, especially with 1/2 breakers.

The panel is 200 rated

What I can't remember is whether it accepts/rated to feed 240 from the lighting circuts... have to read it next time I see it.

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Old 05-15-2013, 09:14 AM   #58
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of course it would it is feed by 50 amp 2 pole right ??
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #59
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of course it would it is feed by 50 amp 2 pole right ??
Yes two two poles..... I referred to them as two 50A doubles.

as I recall.... not tandems and just 1 inchers handle tied (4 individual 1" breakers)
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:30 AM   #60
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Yes two two poles..... I referred to them as two 50A doubles.

as I recall.... not tandems and just 1 inchers handle tied (4 individual 1" breakers)

still two poles or L1 and L2 or 2 120 volts 180 degrees out of phase ...

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