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Old 05-13-2013, 07:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
If you're going to do this work yourself, and I'm sure you are, then purchase a new panel.

Do you own your home? If so, I would look into getting a permit and inspection by a licensed ELECTRICAL inspector.

Where are you located?

There are safe ways to do this, but you will have to take it slow and ask for advice at every point in the removal and replacement.

Take pics BEFORE and AFTER, both the Service panel, and the Meter Base, and upload your progress and questions at each stage.

And don't be afraid to question replies, especially from those of us who are NOT Professional Sparkys. If you're unsure of a reply, wait for a Pro.

TO the Pros: Why isn't there a Main Disconnect in this? Does the 6-throw rule allow this?

Edit: I found your location.
You are correct about the 6 throws of the hand rule applying to split bus panels. It allows the manufacturer to skip the cost of a main breaker while remaining code compliant.

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:33 AM   #32
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Anne Arundel County does not have homeowner permits. The OP will need to hire someone with a license to perform the panel change. Also BGE does not allow anyone to cut their meter tags.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #33
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Anne Arundel County does not have homeowner permits. The OP will need to hire someone with a license to perform the panel change. Also BGE does not allow anyone to cut their meter tags.
Jim... interesting, I thought most (virtually all) jurisdictions allowed a HO to perform permitted work, subjecct to inspection.

I thought it was almost a "right" to be able to make your own improvements, subject of course doing it to adopted codes.

Guess I was wrong

Is that for electrical only, surely a HO can pull there own plumbing or building permit?????

(I'm not surprized about the POCO at all.... I think sometimes the field guys just overlook the issue when they know the party knows what they are doing. I doubt many (if any)"front offices" let the HO pulll meters)
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:17 AM   #34
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You are correct about the 6 throws of the hand rule applying to split bus panels. It allows the manufacturer to skip the cost of a main breaker while remaining code compliant.

MM11.... I find that interesting.... I always wondered what the advantage was to a split buss design. We have a bunch of old GE splits around here.

Kinda strange though... because rather than a one main... you have to have two double pole 50's as feeders to the lighting busses...plus wiring the feeders....doesn't seem like alot of savings.

I'm not a sparky, but I don't think they make any for resi anymore ... do they?

Is there any in commercial?

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Old 05-13-2013, 05:38 PM   #35
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You are correct about the 6 throws of the hand rule applying to split bus panels. It allows the manufacturer to skip the cost of a main breaker while remaining code compliant.
To be honest I have no idea what the logic was behind the split-buss panel design. I hardly think it had anything to do with price though.
There is always a "lighting main", so that offsets some of the cost of a single main.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:11 PM   #36
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There is always a "lighting main", so that offsets some of the cost of a single main.
Speedy, Would you describe this, please? I've never heard of a lighting main. Generally, I see lights on different circuits. Aren't Bath, kitchen and bedroom lights to be on separate circuits?
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #37
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Speedy, Would you describe this, please? I've never heard of a lighting main. Generally, I see lights on different circuits. Aren't Bath, kitchen and bedroom lights to be on separate circuits?
Sparklot... It's just a terminolgy in the split buss design. The top six breakers supply the 240 circs and 2 doubles carry 120 down to the two lower busses... which got named lighting busses, because they were 120 service..... receps whatever... not really just lighting


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Old 05-13-2013, 06:24 PM   #38
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One of the 6 "mains" feeds the lower bus section and was normally labeled "lighting main".

The lower bus sections contained the normal lighting and receptacle circuit breakers.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:09 PM   #39
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lol, thanks guys.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:31 AM   #40
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If i remember correctly that followed along with the old fuse panels had that design also, couple cartridge pullouts and then some screw ins ...
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 AM   #41
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If i remember correctly that followed along with the old fuse panels had that design also, couple cartridge pullouts and then some screw ins ...
I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Pretty sad how I actually think about this stuff away from my computer.

The old fuse panels had a "Lighting Main" and a "Range Main".
The lighting main killed everything below the two big pull-outs.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:10 AM   #42
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To be honest I have no idea what the logic was behind the split-buss panel design. I hardly think it had anything to do with price though.
There is always a "lighting main", so that offsets some of the cost of a single main.
the logic of the design was that one bad breaker would not render the entire panel inoperative. Of course the idea was scraped when the manufacturer realized they could now sell a $100.00 replacement main as oppose to selling a $15.00 breaker.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:15 AM   #43
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I have an old panel that is a peice of slate ... abouut 1" thick .. copper buss bars .. old style handles ...with all screw in fuses more than 10 ... no cover just literaly all just mounted on the slate, we pulled out of a house down in the city ..if i remember i will take a pic of it its pretty cool ...
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:57 AM   #44
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Kinda strange though... because rather than a one main... you have to have two double pole 50's as feeders to the lighting busses...plus wiring the feeders....doesn't seem like alot of savings.r
Are you sure that the bottom half (lighting busses) required two double breakers up above as opposed to just one double? On the example pictured it appeared to me as if only the top right double (no black and red branch circuit conductors coming off of it) was the master breaker for the bottom half of the panel.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:41 AM   #45
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Are you sure that the bottom half (lighting busses) required two double breakers up above as opposed to just one double? On the example pictured it appeared to me as if only the top right double (no black and red branch circuit conductors coming off of it) was the master breaker for the bottom half of the panel.
Alan.... some split buss designs had two and some had three busses... one main and either 1 or 2 lighting busses.

A popular panel in my area was a GE with 2 lighting busses... but alot had just one.

The GE fed the two lower busses at 50 A each.

Peter

EDIT: Actually, I don't know that box... I have no idea if it's a split buss design and I can't tell unless I can actually see the hard wiring.

I have no idea what the top left feeders that don't appear to be breakered are... is there a subpanel involved somewhere... but if it's a feed... seems to me it should be breakered. Am I missing something??????

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