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View Poll Results: Type of Conduit for my Kitchen
I'd use Smurf (Flex ENT) and save yourself some time 2 16.67%
EMT is the only way to go. 1 8.33%
Are you crazy man? Thats what romex is for... 9 75.00%
Voters: 12. This poll is closed

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Old 02-19-2009, 09:16 AM   #1
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


HI;

I know both fully meet code, just want to hear opinions. I am starting to install outlets in my kitchen today. I can do a less destructive install if I use smurf. It would all be in walls / in floor joists, nothing exposed. I could also do emt, but would have to damage some more walls.

I like EMT and think it is more professional, but know it will take me 3 times as long to install the EMT vs ENT (smurf).

I have lots of both, EMT and ENT (smurf). If it was your kitchen, would you be taking the time to run the EMT to the outlets or just use the smurf?

Thanks for your opinions.
Jamie

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Old 02-19-2009, 09:54 AM   #2
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


As far as I see it EMT is good if it is possible that damage could occur, but if it is in the wall and you just want to be able to snake the lines to make it easy no problem with ENT. EMT looks better but whos going to see it.

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Old 02-19-2009, 11:09 AM   #3
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


I went for emt just because im a fanatic of that stuff. Smurf and romex is good...how come nobody's mentioning FMC? That stuff is really nice.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:10 PM   #4
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Jamie,
You have been on this project for a good while now and have been using EMT, is that correct? If you have already installed EMT for the majority of the job, I would continue using EMT. If you told me that you were half way done and everything was in NM, I would tell you to keep using NM. See the point?

However, you are correct regarding the extra work involved. You could set a box in the attic or crawl space for each room then branch out down the walls and hard to access areas with NM.

Personally I would use EMT if thats what you have been using. But it is not required, just consistent with your previous work.
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:01 PM   #5
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
However, you are correct regarding the extra work involved. You could set a box in the attic or crawl space for each room then branch out down the walls and hard to access areas with NM.

How about running large conduit through the attic and branching off with FMC?
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:18 PM   #6
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Jamie,
You have been on this project for a good while now and have been using EMT, is that correct? If you have already installed EMT for the majority of the job, I would continue using EMT. If you told me that you were half way done and everything was in NM, I would tell you to keep using NM. See the point?

However, you are correct regarding the extra work involved. You could set a box in the attic or crawl space for each room then branch out down the walls and hard to access areas with NM.

Personally I would use EMT if thats what you have been using. But it is not required, just consistent with your previous work.
HI;

This is my kitchen gut and remodel project, which I started back in the fall, It got put on hold at the holidays, then we further put on hold while we did my parrents home rewire over the past 6 weeks.

I have Smurf run from a sub panel in the attic to the soffit boxes for lighting and switch loops (a number of 3/4 way switches for the room).

However, I have almost no outlets installed in the kitchen right now and was planing on feeding them from the basement. It is about a 275sqft ish kitchen, so I will need to install a number of counter top and general purpose outlets in the kitchen. Maybe 9 boxes total.

I really like EMT and can do EMT for all these outlets, the only drawback is that I will have to open up probably 6 new piece of wall to install EMT that I otherwise would not have had to modify.

My other thought was to run EMT to a big Jbox in the basement below the kitchen in the basement laundry closet, then run the smurf up to the kitchen outlets, I can get the smurf in with almost no destruction to the walls. But I do feel EMT gives superior protection, for fire, fault path, etc. Espically for higher load kitchen outlets, I was thinking it would be the better choice. Maybe I am over thining this, and smurf in the walls would be fine, then I would just connect to EMT right below the floor in the basement.

I am not planing on using much if any NM, really I am deciding between using all emt and smashing up the walls to get it in or using just emt in the basement and using smurf to go up the walls to save from destroying many of the walls.

Thanks
Jamie
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:19 PM   #7
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
How about running large conduit through the attic and branching off with FMC?
I haven't worked with FMC, is it pretty similar to what used to be called MC/BX? Does it function more or less like flex ENT (smurf) but is metal?

Thanks
Jamie
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:38 PM   #8
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


I guess when I think of residential work, I think Romex. (Unless you live somewhere like Chicago) I think it is easy to use, an it is pretty easy to make a nice neat job in good time. The thing that rubs me the wrong way with mixing EMT and Smurf and romex is that you end up with all these junctions everywhere. I've seen your pictures with like a big 6" X 6" J box that has dozens of wires, splices with many circuits. We end up with splices like that when upgrading services and such, but I can't see intentionally making them on a new system. I like to keep things simple. I remember in one post that you had to tie together 19 grounds! I guess I've aways went from box to box, using larger boxes when needed. Don't get me wrong, you will probably need some junction boxes when rewiring a finished home. Many times you will need to use shallower boxes and then you will need to do your splicing elsewhere.

Jamie, I'm not trying to beat you up. Your doing a nice job.

Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion. No one is nessesarly right or wrong.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:01 PM   #9
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
I haven't worked with FMC, is it pretty similar to what used to be called MC/BX? Does it function more or less like flex ENT (smurf) but is metal?

Thanks
Jamie

Kind of like smurf...if its listed for set screw connectors, then you may use them...set screw connector on right, clamp connector on left.



My video demonstrating the flexibility of 3/8 FMC

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=100_5197.flv
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:19 PM   #10
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


For my residential work I go with Romex where allowed-and use mc in places where I feel some damage might exist. I use conduit in places like my garage & basement but within walls, mostly Romex.
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:34 PM   #11
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
Kind of like smurf...if its listed for set screw connectors, then you may use them...set screw connector on right, clamp connector on left.

My video demonstrating the flexibility of 3/8 FMC

http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=100_5197.flv
Thanks for posting that info. It looks much much more flexible and easier to work with than smurf.

Do you still have to use a special cutter on fmc?

Jamie
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:44 PM   #12
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcollector View Post
I guess when I think of residential work, I think Romex. (Unless you live somewhere like Chicago) I think it is easy to use, an it is pretty easy to make a nice neat job in good time. The thing that rubs me the wrong way with mixing EMT and Smurf and romex is that you end up with all these junctions everywhere. I've seen your pictures with like a big 6" X 6" J box that has dozens of wires, splices with many circuits. We end up with splices like that when upgrading services and such, but I can't see intentionally making them on a new system. I like to keep things simple. I remember in one post that you had to tie together 19 grounds! I guess I've aways went from box to box, using larger boxes when needed. Don't get me wrong, you will probably need some junction boxes when rewiring a finished home. Many times you will need to use shallower boxes and then you will need to do your splicing elsewhere.

Jamie, I'm not trying to beat you up. Your doing a nice job.

Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion. No one is nessesarly right or wrong.
Thanks for your comments. I defiantly have more flexibility here in my kitchen than I did when working at my parents. That Junction box your speaking of was for 2 large rooms, 1 with shallow boxes against concrete, the other was with all the outlets set in wood work and it was far easier to run back to the jbox.

In my kitchen I have the floor up, so I can potentially run some box to box vs running all to a jbox. The only problem with that is that I am not planning on ripping open most of the walls, so it does make it a bit of a challenge to directly connect them to each other.

With EMT in residential, (say in Chicago where they have full emt systems) do they typically run box to box with emt, how do they manage to get it through the studs? Just have to do it while they are building and things are open?

Jamie
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:06 AM   #13
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Thanks for posting that info. It looks much much more flexible and easier to work with than smurf.

Do you still have to use a special cutter on fmc?

Jamie

Yes, but you can use a dremel with with the appropriate bits.

When you cut fmc, with rotozip or a dremel, you can snap it apart in a twisting motion.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:05 AM   #14
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


The cutter is less than 20.00. You could also stand on the cable and stretch it across your knee and use a hacksaw at a ~45 angle.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
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Opinion Question Flex ENT vs EMT


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
With EMT in residential, (say in Chicago where they have full emt systems) do they typically run box to box with emt, how do they manage to get it through the studs? Just have to do it while they are building and things are open?
Right. I'm really not sure on their codes so I can't tell you what they do in a remodel situation. Many times, instead of going from stud to stud, they go up through the bottom plate to a box, then back down into the floor system, back up, over and over.

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