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Old 02-11-2011, 09:18 PM   #16
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


The outlet works, just not the GFI function, and the tester states "open ground."
It is a metal box with a black and white wire covered in a cloth type of material, i guess the predicessor to romex. I will try again tomorrow, thanks for the input.

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Old 02-11-2011, 09:42 PM   #17
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


The 3 light tester needs a grounded device to work as it sends some current onto the grounding conductor. Without the grounding conductor there is no imbalance created as there is no path for the current to flow.

The only true test method is the built-in test button.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:50 PM   #18
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


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Originally Posted by jlmran View Post
Wanna share what is right?
When pushed, with the power on and correctly wired,the integral test button on a GFCI receptacle creates an imbalance of current in the internal current transformer thus tripping the circuit off.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:02 PM   #19
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


A CT. Thanks.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:29 PM   #20
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


Op states old style cloth "romex" two wire no equipment ground. Cheap 3 wire tester will not trip the gfci .. it needs a egc to do so. See Jim Ports post. NO egc means 'open ground' indication on tester.

Internal test button integral to the gfci will not trip when pushed. The gfci test button does not need the egc as it (when pushed) completes a circuit with the neutral or grounded leg thru a resistor that allows a current flow of about 5ma to 6ma . This current does not travel thru the internal ct ( toroidal coil) on the neutral only on the ungrounded conductor. GFCI sees 5ma on ungrounded and 0 ma on neutral and trips.

It might be that the test button will not work on non fail-safe gfci's ... only if gfci is wired line to load and load to line or no connection to line terminals or mixed. Receptacle will work but no gfci protection.

OP ... your gfci may be wired line to load terminals or mixed... and it is the old style gfci before fail-safe technology or your not getting the test button pushed in far enough.

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Old 02-12-2011, 04:11 PM   #21
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


So, I spoke to a buddy of mine, who told me to do this:

I took a 2" wire and connected it to the ground and then the neutral screws on the outlet. The tester now reads "correct." I'm not sure how dangerous this is...but it will pass the instpector's test.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #22
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus135 View Post
So, I spoke to a buddy of mine, who told me to do this:

I took a 2" wire and connected it to the ground and then the neutral screws on the outlet. The tester now reads "correct." I'm not sure how dangerous this is...but it will pass the instpector's test.
Totally unacceptable. Find an inspector that knows what he/she is talking about. It is totally code compliant to replace non-grounded receptacles with GFCIs. Since there will be no grounding conductor the tester will show open ground.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:35 PM   #23
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus135 View Post
So, I spoke to a buddy of mine, who told me to do this:

I took a 2" wire and connected it to the ground and then the neutral screws on the outlet. The tester now reads "correct." I'm not sure how dangerous this is...but it will pass the instpector's test.
Under the correct conditions connecting the neutral to your ground screw can be fatal. Your neutral (grounded leg) is part of the current carrying circuit and if you connect it to your equipment ground via that green screw on the metal yoke you just energized your ground. Anything you now plug into that gfci receptacle that has a ground pin on the power cord will allow current to flow to the appliance metal and is an electrocution hazard.

It will not pass any inspection due to the safety hazard it poses. If the inspector uses a more expensive tester it will show this 'bootleg' ground and he will write that up in RED letters.

If he doesn't then he may not realize what you did because it will 'fool' his cheap tester by thinking the receptacle has an equipment ground when in fact it doesn't. Using the neutral as you have done poses a life threatening
issue.

You need to remove the bootleg ground .. the gfci does not need ground to function properly.

In fact as brric just mentioned installing a gfci is a code compliant way to replace ungrounded 2 prong receptacles when an equipment ground is not present.

I would also tell your friend that he could be held liable if he actually performs the installation of a bootleg ground in the event someone was electrocuted.

At present the liabilty is all on you.

He needs to stop giving such dangerous advice. If he had even the slightest understanding of the behavior of an electrical circuit he would see how dangerous his suggestion would become.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:57 PM   #24
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open ground on a GCFI outlet


I'll remove it after my inspection wednesday. There is no reasoning with this female inspector. Thank you you for the advice.

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