Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 35
Share |
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


I'm comparing a CH/Eaton external-mounted box (i.e. NEMA 3R) and a CH interior-mounted loadcenter. On the interior box, I see two bars, one on the right that receives the service neutral and appears to be bondable to the box with a ground strap and receives the branch circuit neutrals, and then a ground bar on the left side which is bonded to the box and presumably used to terminate branch grounds. But on the NEMA-3R box it only has a single bar to receive the service neutral and both branch neutral and grounds, no bar on the left for separately terminating grounds. Why is this? Seems to me it would be preferred to have separate bars to terminate grounds and neutrals. What am I missing?

Johnd85053 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 10:54 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Md/Pa
Posts: 1,058
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


I believe you can purchase a seperate ground bus as an option which would be good for a subpanel.

zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #3
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,901
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Are they main breaker or sub panels youre looking at?
__________________
"facts" have no relevance to this discusion
Posting from a concrete bunker under a non descript barn
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


This is a main loadcenter.

I'm just wondering why CH/Eaton wouldn't want to provide the ground bar?
Johnd85053 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:17 PM   #5
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,901
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


On a main breaker panel neutrals/grounds dont need to be seperated
__________________
"facts" have no relevance to this discusion
Posting from a concrete bunker under a non descript barn
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:24 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Understand that, but why is it included as a standard part of the interior-mounted box but not the exterior?
Johnd85053 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:24 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Md/Pa
Posts: 1,058
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


If there is any chance in the future that this panel will become a sub I would install and wire a seperate ground bus.
zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:25 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Md/Pa
Posts: 1,058
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnd85053 View Post
Understand that, but why is it included as a standard part of the interior-mounted box but not the exterior?
Call them and ask. My guess would be that most outdoor installations are a main.

Last edited by zappa; 02-09-2012 at 11:27 PM.
zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:26 PM   #9
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,901
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnd85053 View Post
Understand that, but why is it included as a standard part of the interior-mounted box but not the exterior?
That Im not sure,designed by differant engineer maybe?
__________________
"facts" have no relevance to this discusion
Posting from a concrete bunker under a non descript barn
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:37 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Different Engr, perhaps.

The exterior box is designed to be more adaptable to a Sub; you add a ground bar to keep separate. But for the interior box, with a ground strap reaching from the left-to-right bars, for sure that is only for a main.

Ahh, maybe the angle is the interior box will most likely be a main but if you needed to convert it to an interior Sub you could separate the provided ground & neutral bars.

And for the exterior version of the box, at a minimim its a Main unless you want to convert it to a Sub in which case you buy a separate ground bar.

But in any case, and although its not required, you could always install a separate ground bar and install into the exterior box.

OEM must have figured out the most likely usage scenarios. (?)
Johnd85053 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Johnd85053 For This Useful Post:
plummen (02-09-2012)
Old 02-09-2012, 11:44 PM   #11
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


I really like having my grounds and neutrals separate even in a main panel. Looks neater.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rrolleston For This Useful Post:
plummen (02-09-2012)
Old 02-09-2012, 11:49 PM   #12
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,005
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnd85053 View Post
I'm comparing a CH/Eaton external-mounted box (i.e. NEMA 3R) and a CH interior-mounted loadcenter. On the interior box, I see two bars, one on the right that receives the service neutral and appears to be bondable to the box with a ground strap and receives the branch circuit neutrals, and then a ground bar on the left side which is bonded to the box and presumably used to terminate branch grounds. But on the NEMA-3R box it only has a single bar to receive the service neutral and both branch neutral and grounds, no bar on the left for separately terminating grounds. Why is this? Seems to me it would be preferred to have separate bars to terminate grounds and neutrals. What am I missing?
Usually this is because the 3R has less circuits than the interior panel and only one bar is provided. The interior panel is called a split neutral. It is not necessarily meant to be used to puts grounds on one and neutrals on the other. You can buy a grounding bar though if you want for the 3R.. If the interior panel is used as service equipment neutral and ground are bonded and it doesn't matter which bar has grounds and which bar has the neutrals both can have a combination of both. If it is not used as service equipment ..ie.. it is used as a 'sub' panel then you do not install the bonding means for the neutral bar and you bond only the ground bar to the panel metal. You connect equipment grounds to the grounding bar and neutrals to the unbonded neutral bar.

You can get a ch or BR eaton panel that is 3R with split neutral if that is what you prefer.

Is your application sub-panel or service equipment?
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 02-09-2012 at 11:57 PM.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stubbie For This Useful Post:
Johnd85053 (02-09-2012), plummen (02-09-2012)
Old 02-09-2012, 11:58 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 35
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Thanks, makes perfect sense, I agree.

The application is Main Service.
Johnd85053 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 12:11 AM   #14
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,005
Default

One or Two ground/neutral bars in loadcenter??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnd85053 View Post
Thanks, makes perfect sense, I agree.

The application is Main Service.
Some technical info for the interior panel


__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Stubbie For This Useful Post:
zappa (02-10-2012)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why can't you connect Ground/Neutral bus bars on a sub secutanudu Electrical 42 11-07-2012 01:33 PM
Upgraded loadcenter wiring questions Johnd85053 Electrical 9 02-05-2012 05:35 PM
Where does my question go? Grab bars in bathrooms Galadriel General DIY Discussions 6 02-19-2010 11:20 AM
Electrical Panel Bus Bars dave_80 Electrical 22 01-21-2010 10:18 PM
Repairing Futon metal bars? mikehende General DIY Discussions 9 01-24-2008 09:04 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.