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Old 12-07-2011, 05:53 PM   #1
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I can do new construction with out much difficulty but i have never done any work behind finished walls. My kitchen has one circuit that is old cloth wrap that I would like to replace with romex but I dont want to have to open the walls up, it will be too hard to match the 60 year old sheetrock and I am not sure I will end up doing a remodel before selling. any tips on routing the cable?
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #2
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I can do new construction with out much difficulty but i have never done any work behind finished walls. My kitchen has one circuit that is old cloth wrap that I would like to replace with romex but I dont want to have to open the walls up, it will be too hard to match the 60 year old sheetrock and I am not sure I will end up doing a remodel before selling. any tips on routing the cable?
Once you start rewiring that room, you may have to bring the entire room up to code. Are you prepared to do so?
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:11 PM   #3
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Once you start rewiring that room, you may have to bring the entire room up to code. Are you prepared to do so?
hmmm, wasnt sure you had to do that if you were the home owner and you are not changing the layout/number of outlets. I could be wrong, not likely anyone will know...
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:19 PM   #4
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hmmm, wasnt sure you had to do that if you were the home owner and you are not changing the layout/number of outlets. I could be wrong, not likely anyone will know...
You have to bring up to current code, especially with the age of the wiring, and that it no longer meets today's demands. I have pretty much ripped all of the BX out of my house. Only stuff left is some lighting, that I can not get to, unless I rip apart some walls, so it is left in service.

A kitchen with 1 outlet, would not meet the criteria of 2 SABC's min., which is nice especially on the counter. Now, they can get away with just pulling 12/3 to meet the criteria, which means one pull, but a double box with 2 gfci outlets. The only catch to this would be, if they only have 30" of counter, other wise if they have two sections of counter, they will have to split the outlets, so that both sections are covered. But in turn, can use the one pull of 12/3 to complete both circuits, and meet the requirements of min. 2 SABC's.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:25 PM   #5
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You have to bring up to current code, especially with the age of the wiring, and that it no longer meets today's demands. I have pretty much ripped all of the BX out of my house. Only stuff left is some lighting, that I can not get to, unless I rip apart some walls, so it is left in service.

A kitchen with 1 outlet, would not meet the criteria of 2 SABC's min., which is nice especially on the counter. Now, they can get away with just pulling 12/3 to meet the criteria, which means one pull, but a double box with 2 gfci outlets. The only catch to this would be, if they only have 30" of counter, other wise if they have two sections of counter, they will have to split the outlets, so that both sections are covered. But in turn, can use the one pull of 12/3 to complete both circuits, and meet the requirements of min. 2 SABC's.
Than add at least one more for lighting and general purpose receptacles.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:37 PM   #6
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You have to bring up to current code, especially with the age of the wiring, and that it no longer meets today's demands. I have pretty much ripped all of the BX out of my house. Only stuff left is some lighting, that I can not get to, unless I rip apart some walls, so it is left in service.

A kitchen with 1 outlet, would not meet the criteria of 2 SABC's min., which is nice especially on the counter. Now, they can get away with just pulling 12/3 to meet the criteria, which means one pull, but a double box with 2 gfci outlets. The only catch to this would be, if they only have 30" of counter, other wise if they have two sections of counter, they will have to split the outlets, so that both sections are covered. But in turn, can use the one pull of 12/3 to complete both circuits, and meet the requirements of min. 2 SABC's.

I do have two outlets at the counter, those are the ones I want to update. the rest of the kitchen is on a separate circuit that I have no intentions of touching at this point. I am redoing my entrance way and my porch light is on the same circuit, when I traced that back to the breaker i found the two outlets and a basement light all come out of a junction box. my goal was to get rid of the junction box since I plan to finish the ceiling in the basement and do all my connects in the switch and outlet boxes.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:41 PM   #7
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Than add at least one more for lighting and general purpose receptacles.
In a Kitchen, there is no general purpose receptacle. Under the SABC requirements, which is the min. of 2 outlet circuits required in a kitchen. The kitchen would already have lighting, so that theory is thrown out.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:45 PM   #8
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I do have two outlets at the counter, those are the ones I want to update. the rest of the kitchen is on a separate circuit that I have no intentions of touching at this point. I am redoing my entrance way and my porch light is on the same circuit, when I traced that back to the breaker i found the two outlets and a basement light all come out of a junction box. my goal was to get rid of the junction box since I plan to finish the ceiling in the basement and do all my connects in the switch and outlet boxes.
That would be the way to go. Originally my house had four circuits covering the four corners of the home. At each of these junction boxes, were lights with pull strings for the basement. Since I have made my changes, we now have 24 circuits in our panel. My Kitchen alone has four SABC's, one circuit for a disposal, one lighting circuit that covers the Kitchen, Dining lighting.

I couldn't do Multi-wire, due to I pulled the drops for the small appliance branch circuits into the basement, into junction boxes, so it made things easier to do
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:51 PM   #9
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i guess there is a second question regarding codes and what not. I have at least two circuits in the kitchen, my panel box is about 50/50 romex and that older BX. if I upgrade one circuit to a GFCI outlet and romex I have to trace the other circuits back and make sure they are up to code as well? I have had multiple previous "home owner electricians" that have made a mess of everything. buried junction boxes all over, then some things that look like they are probably up to code. eventually the entire house would ideal be up to code but its going to be one room at a time and the kitchen will be last to be remodeled since everything has been updated other than the sheetrock.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:54 PM   #10
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That would be the way to go. Originally my house had four circuits covering the four corners of the home. At each of these junction boxes, were lights with pull strings for the basement. Since I have made my changes, we now have 24 circuits in our panel. My Kitchen alone has four SABC's, one circuit for a disposal, one lighting circuit that covers the Kitchen, Dining lighting.

I couldn't do Multi-wire, due to I pulled the drops for the small appliance branch circuits into the basement, into junction boxes, so it made things easier to do
with that being said, are there any suggestions of getting romex through with out pulling apart the wall? I have no idea how this is usually done, or are the walls usually pulled apart and patched?
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:56 PM   #11
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Take each circuit, clean it up, and bring to the most recent code for your area. My area is on the 2008, but I refuse to put in AFCI breakers. Especially since the rewire was done in 2003, and I am going by that as when I state as to when the house was rewired last. With the exception of the Kitchen & Bath, which were done in 2010 for bath, 2011 for kitchen.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:02 PM   #12
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with that being said, are there any suggestions of getting romex through with out pulling apart the wall? I have no idea how this is usually done, or are the walls usually pulled apart and patched?
If the wire that is there, was done to rewire a previous. bx, or just pulled as old-work, you should be able to pull the existing box, then be able to push the new romex up the wall, and fish it out as it comes up.

It takes two people sometimes to do it. One to watch for the wire coming up, and the other making sure that the wire does not tangle down below. When I pulled the BX out of a couple of spots, I had to end up patching around the existing box, by just enough after the pull, due to I had to make a spot to unscrew the screw holding the BX. It took some creative fishing on those, to get the new romex pulled back up.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:06 PM   #13
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thanks for the info, judging by the box i pulled in the entrance way i am guessing they are rework boxes in the kitchen and I may be able to remove them to pull the cable making it easier. I will have to take a look. thanks again for the ideas!
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:07 PM   #14
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Use Smart boxes in those places that you have a stud next to the hole.
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