Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #16
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Old meter box covers?


This sheds more light on your previous thread. These meters and the fuse box upstairs were the original service to the house. When the new service was installed, someone ran the cable from the new panel in the basement to the old meter sockets and then connected that cable to the original cable which leads to the old fuse box in the upstairs area. That fuse box contains the original circuits in the house.

This explains the three wires in the basement panel. The entire thing is just plain wrong. I suggest bringing in an electrician. But if you want to do it yourself, start by taking a picture of the upstairs fuse box as suggested by Marc. Basically you need to get power from the basement panel to the upstairs fuse box in a proper and safe way. While eliminating the old meter sockets.

__________________
John
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:49 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


Can anyone guess about the need for permits & inspection for replacing that mess? What is the agency that I would contact to find this out? I'm in a teeny tiny town in Southeastern Kentucky.

How does one pick an electrician? The guy who put in the panel in 91 is still around, but ...

Off to take pictures of the upstairs panel.

Thanks,
Jim
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


Just walked outside with my voltage sensor. Yes, the mess is live. Yes it is dead when I throw the 60amp "upstairs" breaker.

Here are pictures of the upstairs panel. It's a Murray 77-4.

Needless to say, I left the breaker turned off. Luckily we aren't really using the upstairs at the moment.

Jim
Attached Thumbnails
Old meter box covers?-upstairs-fuse-panel-label.jpg   Old meter box covers?-upstairs-fuse-panel.jpg   Old meter box covers?-upstairs-panel-tub.jpg  
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 03:08 PM   #19
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,698
Rewards Points: 2,070
Default

Old meter box covers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by simanco View Post
Yes it is dead when I throw the 60amp "upstairs" breaker.
Luckily we aren't really using the upstairs at the moment.
The question remains:
does ANYTHING upstairs not work when this is off?

If so... then you need to do the re-feed work.
If not... then you can probably demo the old stuff.
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 04:34 PM   #20
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Old meter box covers?


Contact your town board person for information about permits.

I would pass on hiring the guy who did this work.

Check the house to determine what is not working with the upstairs panel turned off. Can you take a picture with the cover off the fuse box?

It appears there are no fuses in the range fuse block. The right hand pull out. Is that correct?
__________________
John
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 06:08 PM   #21
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,918
Rewards Points: 2,232
Default

Old meter box covers?


Is that a bathtub?

If you need that panel, you need to move it.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 11:18 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


Here's a pic of the inside of the old upstairs fusebox. Not my best photographic effort, but it should answer the questions, I hope.

I pulled the "range side" and it is completely empty. Nothing attached to the terminals above it.

I've never worked with fuse panels before. Why is there a black 12 gauge wire attached under the range-side? Is it really "protected" by that 30 amp fuse above it? Or, since it is on the empty range-side ... it's just sitting there?

That wire is of the era as the stuff that I know was installed by the same crazy people that left illegal splices all over the place.

Yes, it's over a bathtub. There is another room on the other side of that wall. Would it be acceptable to mount a nice new breaker box On The Other Side of the bathtub wall, closing in the resultant hole in the the bathtub side? If this is acceptable, it seems the easiest thing to do, otherwise those circuits have to be run elsewhere. (A 6 space 125amp main lug, I'm thinking - $20 at Lowe's.)

Ain't nuthin' workin' upstairs that I can find. This is the way "it should be" considering the upstairs was once an apartment and metered separately from the main floor.

Thanks again,
Jim
Attached Thumbnails
Old meter box covers?-upstairs-fuse-panel-open.jpg  
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 11:46 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 2,658
Rewards Points: 2,276
Default

Old meter box covers?


Looks like that wire on the right was to be used for something in the future, so was put in,
and not connected to a live terminal,
instead they just used a convenient not active terminal.

Or possibly there was something else, that has since been removed,
and again the wire was just removed from a live terminal and placed in a convenient not active terminal.

So where does that wire go to ?

If those terminals in the meter box are live under any circumstances
then I would cover the hole with some thing in the mean time.
what about a large plastic lid ?

Last edited by dmxtothemax; 07-06-2012 at 11:50 PM.
dmxtothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 11:58 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


There was a time when I had the meter hole covered with an orange sherbet lid. Needless to say, plastic doesn't hold up well in the sun. The breaker in the basement is turned off.

I have no clue where that new wire goes. I've done absolutely no more investigation upstairs other than opening that thing up to take the picture. Had it been connected to an active terminal, I would have said that it went to the bathroom, as it was the only room upstairs that had any wiring re-work done to my knowledge. At least work done during the era that wire would have been put in, anyway.

Jim
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 09:43 AM   #25
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Old meter box covers?


Thanks for the picture Jim.

There are three active circuits in the old fuse box. Yes one is fed through the 30 amp fuse. The other 30 amp has nothing connected to it.

The range pull out is it's own circuit (screws above it) and has nothing to do with the round fuses. And it is not being used nor connected to anything.

If it were me, I would run three new #12-2 / G wires from the basement to the upstairs. I would replace the old fuse box with a simple junction box, splicing them in the box. I would remove the old fuse box, the old large wire, and the old meter sockets.

First I would try to determine what those three circuits do. Maybe one or two are no longer used. That would be great and would simplify the job.
__________________
John

Last edited by jrclen; 07-07-2012 at 09:51 AM.
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 02:49 AM   #26
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Old meter box covers?


Wow now I can see it clear on this matter.

That something I don't useally see that clean a old fuse box like that shape.

Now as jrclen mention is there a way you can make a new junction box in attic space if you can get into ? and I think you should able move it without major issue otherwise couple deep 1900's ( 4X4 junction box ) will work however., you can not bury them so you have to make it accessable otherwise if you can move them in attic that is great.

If you are plan to do some remodeling in upstairs not too far in future maybe it will be a wise idea to put a new subpanel in different location and run new circuits from there. ( that is one of few possiblity you can do )

Merci,
Marc
__________________
The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


That box is so clean and neat, probably because it's been opened twice - when it was put in sometime (I'm guessing) in the 1950's and then in 1977 or 78, when that "new" Romex was installed.

There is no accessible attic space. In that area, I don't think there is ANY attic space in that area.

Can a panel be on The Other Side of that wall? That wall is shared with another room. I was thinking that the simplest solution would be to 1) remove the fusebox, 2) close in the hole on the bathroom side of the wall and 3) install a new breaker box on The Other Side of the wall. No re-routing of circuits would be required that way.

Would having a panel on the other side of the bathtub wall be allowed by code?

Thanks,
Jim
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 09:33 AM   #28
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Old meter box covers?


You can certainly place a box on the other side of the wall from the tub. If you want a breaker box you will need to upgrade the feeder to it. It needs to be a 4 conductor circuit, and needs to bypass those old meter sockets. The other side of the wall is not a closet is it?
__________________
John

Last edited by jrclen; 07-09-2012 at 09:37 AM.
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 01:33 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 65
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Old meter box covers?


No, it is not a closet. It is an unused "kitchen" leftover from the 50s or 60s. Kitchen is in quotes because it doesn't qualify by today's standards. My great-grandmother's old gas cookstove is in there as well as a sink.

Oh ... Ok ... How far does a sub-panel have to be away from a sink? We've not used this kitchen as a kitchen in so long I no longer think of it as a kitchen. (It's storage at the moment.)

The sink is on the same wall as that bathtub, but it would not be directly under the sub-panel when the panel gets to The Other Side (kitchen-side) of that wall.

Thanks,
Jim
simanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 04:30 PM   #30
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Old meter box covers?


The sub panel would need a space 30 inches wide, floor to ceiling, with no sink or counter inside that 30 inches. A junction box has no such restriction. Is there a reason you wish to install a sub panel? I'm just curious. Have you had a chance to determine if all three circuits are in use?

__________________
John
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meter Main problem. right-sided meter? acerunner Electrical 6 07-23-2011 01:41 PM
320Amp double lug meter - (2) 200amp panels 1texasguy Electrical 31 07-15-2011 11:47 AM
New service Help (Meter can/ service mast Conduit help) cwolford Electrical 13 03-26-2011 08:55 PM
Possible Defective or Incorrect Electrical Meter? MorganB Electrical 10 01-18-2011 10:51 AM
Water meter aggravations KE2KB Plumbing 8 03-21-2009 07:53 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.