DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Electrical (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/)
-   -   Old Doorbell Voltage (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/old-doorbell-voltage-7373/)

karatehero 03-26-2007 11:43 AM

Old Doorbell Voltage
 
I recently bought a house built in the early 1900's (1923 rings a bell?).

Anyway, there is an old door bell hanging from the wall that I would love to restore. When I say bell, I mean it. There is a round bell mounted perpendicular to the wall with a clapper on the outside. This bell is shaped like a ringer on a counter to get someones attention except the clapper is on the outside. The clapper is connected to a swivel and opposite that is 2 exposed copper coils. These coils are connected to tabs for wires.

I found the wire that it was connected to but am unable to find a transformer.

I have access to power supplies up to 30 Volts AC and DC. I plugged it into the DC supply and took it up to 30 volts and only got a very vague ringing. My meter told me 0 volts across my source. I'm assuming this means I don't have my voltage up high enough - its using everything. I would try 24 VAC, but don't want to fry it out.

I'm not an electrical guru. I have no idea what kind of transformer this thing takes, wether its AC or DC or it just takes line volt.

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas? The 'net tells me all kinda stuff - none of it seems to apply to me.

Thanks for the help!

elementx440 03-26-2007 04:46 PM

can you post a pic of the internals?

jwhite 03-26-2007 06:04 PM

by vague ring, do you mean one ding as in the clapper pulled in then did not pull out?

Odds are good that this bell is AC not DC. probably 6, 12, or 18 volt.

Sammy 03-26-2007 06:31 PM

Trine used to make alot of those bells and I think they are now owned by Desa International. Has to be a transformer somewhere that may be the issue. Those bells use up some power. Pic's would be good to see what you have.

karatehero 03-28-2007 11:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sorry it took a while to get this up. I have this setup at my work and I couldn't get a picture setup.

Anyway, I have it set at 24 VDC right now and the ringer just basically vibrates. I have 24VAC power supplies, but am afraid that might be too much.

Sammy 03-28-2007 06:30 PM

Thats it!


I dont think its an antique.. Take a look at www.trineonline.com under products and then door bells. Trine 272 looks like what you have.

Note the amps of 1.5 [which is alot for a modern chime] and compare to your power supply. Most of these work best around 8-16Volts.

I noticed your clapper arm is bent right against the bell also.

I remember my Father replacing the bell on one of these with a 10 inch pie plate. Man would that thing ring!

If your power supply checks out and the bell is the issue, I think Homey carries those.

karatehero 03-29-2007 09:26 AM

I appreaciate your help! I had no idea what this thing was. It was a general concensus though, it looks pretty old. Definately been around the bush.

I found a 9 VAC transformer at 1 AMP and it works OK. I would imagine it could be louder.

I might order a new transformer. I'm debating between 12 and 16 Volts. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for all your help!

Sammy 03-29-2007 06:01 PM

Either voltage would work but its the amps or volt/amps that will make it ring a little louder.

Maybe a 10 inch pie plate in place of the bell will work....

Try bending your clapper arm a little so there is some space between it and the bell when its in the "at rest position".. There needs to be a little room for the arm to move to get the sound.

bobo 04-01-2007 10:47 PM

hello,
one coil pushes, one pulls. basic chatter box/bell. home depot has em, about $15...bob

spudguntechie 09-11-2010 06:31 PM

How to solve two coil doorbell troubles
 
I know this is an old thread, but I was just looking for this information today, installing one of these at my house that was sitting around in my Grandpa's house before he sold in.

The problem was for me (and I presume was for you judging by the picture posted), that what appear to be the two leads where you would attach a power source are not actually the correct points. Basically, you and I attached wires in the wrong places.

One of the wires is screwed into the correct hole, namely the one to the left in the picture, and farther away from the bell, so don't change anything there.

The other wire (the one currently attached closer to the bell), is NOT in fact in the correct spot, although that seems like the obvious place for it.

In order for the ringer to oscillate, you need to move that wire. It needs to be connected to the hole that in the picture is slightly above and to the left of the hole it is currently attached to. Basically, it's attaching to the frame, like a ground wire normally would.

It makes sense if you follow the circuit all of the way through, but at first glance, it is counter-intuitive. I used a 9v DC source to power it since I was implementing the bell in a temporary setup and wanted to use just one battery, but I did get it to work at as low as 3v DC. Ideally, I would run it between 4v DC and 9v DC. Mine actually still had the box, and the box says "6-10 VOLTS A.C. (TRANSFORMER) 3-6 VOLTS D.C. (BATTERY)"

I assume its to late for you, since its been a few years since this post went up, but maybe the next seeker will find what he's looking for now.

@bobo You are partially correct, in that it is just a basic bell, but, I don't believe that different coils do pushing and pulling. Energizing the coils attracts the ringer to them, striking the bell, but that disengages the little copper switch attached to the ringer, and the ringer springs back to a neutral position, re-closing the circuit, and completing the cycle.

AllanJ 09-11-2010 11:23 PM

I think the bell unit needs some physical adjustments. Also I think it works best using DC and may have originally been powerd by four large 1-1/2 volt batteries (about 3 times the height and also diameter of D battery cells). (It might work off of a transformer. It will probably not work with D or smaller batteries.)

Carefully bend the clapper bar so the end rests about 1/16" away from the bell.

Next gently press the clapper bar down by the coils until the clapper end touches the bell. You should see a thin metal strip near the coil closer to the bell move away from the screw (with wire) closer to the bell leaving a very small gap. Let go of the clapper and the very small gap near the screw should disappear.

If you don't see this tiny gap at first, you can try applying power, about 6 volts DC. The bell should ring continuously and you should see a tiny spark between the clapper bar near the coil closer to the bell and the screw (with wire) closer to the bell. You can try increasing the voltage for best sound.

If the bell gives just one loud short ring when you apply power and then goes silent or gives a very weak continuous ring, you can try bending it some more so the end is 1/8 inch from the bell. If the clapper vibrates vigorously without ringing the bell then the end is too far away from the bell.

johnnyboy 09-12-2010 06:25 AM

I used to run one of those off a lantern battery, which is what, 6vdc? was pretty loud... with adjustments mentioned above.

spudguntechie 09-13-2010 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 499707)
I think the bell unit needs some physical adjustments. Also I think it works best using DC and may have originally been powerd by four large 1-1/2 volt batteries (about 3 times the height and also diameter of D battery cells). (It might work off of a transformer. It will probably not work with D or smaller batteries.)

Carefully bend the clapper bar so the end rests about 1/16" away from the bell.

Next gently press the clapper bar down by the coils until the clapper end touches the bell. You should see a thin metal strip near the coil closer to the bell move away from the screw (with wire) closer to the bell leaving a very small gap. Let go of the clapper and the very small gap near the screw should disappear.

If you don't see this tiny gap at first, you can try applying power, about 6 volts DC. The bell should ring continuously and you should see a tiny spark between the clapper bar near the coil closer to the bell and the screw (with wire) closer to the bell. You can try increasing the voltage for best sound.

If the bell gives just one loud short ring when you apply power and then goes silent or gives a very weak continuous ring, you can try bending it some more so the end is 1/8 inch from the bell. If the clapper vibrates vigorously without ringing the bell then the end is too far away from the bell.

Did you even read what I wrote? I'm telling you, the wires are attached in the wrong place! I had EXACTLY this problem.

AllanJ 09-13-2010 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudguntechie (Post 500235)
Did you even read what I wrote? I'm telling you, the wires are attached in the wrong place! I had EXACTLY this problem.

Psst! The wires looked to be on the correct screws (two cardboard padded screws), but I'll look again. (Or was the picture changed since I last saw it?)

By the way, there was or should be a squarish metal cover for the coils but the bell unit will work without that.

If the bell doesn't work and you manage to find the gap where the metal flap pulls away from the screws at the same time the clapper end hits the bell, you might insert a piece of ultra fine sandpaper (or crocus cloth) into the gap first one way and then the other to clean the contact at that place.

Because there are two cardboard padded terminals I doubt that you should connect one wire to the bell frame. It is possible that if the frame is live that is due to a fault that causes internal sparking followed by damage to the coils. There is one possible exception, the screw closer to the bell plus frame is for the front door (continuous ring) and the screw further from the bell plus frame is for the back door (single ring).

spudguntechie 09-13-2010 08:33 PM

My point is that the two terminals are not the correct places to put the wires. Read my post this time.:whistling2:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved