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Old 12-17-2012, 10:15 PM   #46
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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Originally Posted by wonderworm View Post
Please state the consequences and rules you were referring to and where I am wrong. It seems as though the people you are speaking to are desperate to be proven right in their rush to judgements, in spite of all the evidence and results that point to them being flat out wrong.
In the meantime I will continue to enjoy my new clean install, extra closet space, perfectly working tankless, and extra cash with my lower electric bill each month.
TPRV's don't exist for the typical case. They are safety devices for the atypical case. To state your water heater is working beautifully (in the typical case) seems to somehow want to equate operation in that mode to carry over to the atypical case. IT DOESN'T. Further if the device came with the valve and you removed it you can't even cite an economic reason for not installing it (as it came free with the unit).

Yes in the typical case you'll be fine. If however the device malfunctions (i.e. atypical case) due to a sticky water flow sensor, stuck contactor (welded closed) to the heating element, faulty temperature or high limit sensors or perhaps even a software bug on the controller card then you won't be so fine. In those cases the heater might continue to run after the flow stops causing the water in the heater to superheat and generate high pressure. Instead of being purged by the TPRV, now sitting discarded on your tool bench in your garage, something in your water system will rupture. Hopefully no one gets scalded. But hey the guy on the phone (not the safety and code savvy design engineer mind you, the call agent at the outsourced tech help agency) said it was OK.

Safety is achieved by layers of protection. You have chosen to remove a layer that has been proven over about 60-70 years in 100's of millions of installations. Literally billions of in service hours. I guess you know better.


Last edited by curiousB; 12-17-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 PM   #47
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
TPRV's don't exist for the typical case. They are safety devices for the atypical case. To state your water heater is working beautifully (in the typical case) seems to somehow want to equate operation in that mode to carry over to the atypical case. IT DOESN'T. Further if the device came with the valve and you removed it you can't even cite an economic reason for not installing it (as it came free with the unit).

Yes in the typical case you'll be fine. If however the device malfunctions (i.e. atypical case) due to a sticky water flow sensor, stuck contactor (welded closed) to the heating element, faulty temperature or high limit sensors or perhaps even the a software bug on the controller card then you won't be so fine. In those cases the heater might continue to run after the flow stops causing the water in the heater to superheat and generate high pressure. Instead of being purged by the TPRV now sitting discarded on your tool bench in your garage something in your water system will rupture. Hopefully no one gets scalded. But hey the guy on the phone (not the safety and code savvy design engineer mind you, the call agent at the outsourced tech help agency) said it was OK.

Safety is achieved by layers of protection. You have chosen to remove a layer that has been proven over about 60-70 years in 100's of millions of installations. Literally billions of in service hours. I guess you know better.
Well said, we don't need seat belts, or air bags, or life jackets, or circuit breakers, or insurance, or fire extinguishers, or smoke detectors, or... here I go again.

Also, you mentioned flooding and water damage. that's why you put a pipe on the TPR and route it somewhere the water can go safely and without damaging anything.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:39 AM   #48
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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I wasn't responding to you, your post was informative and humorous. It was a response to speedypetey, md2lgyk, rjniles and the other haters who have been claiming that a 240v tankless heater installed on a 240v #10 line at 30 amps as a single point of use water heater was somehow a "hack job" install when it is per specs and works great so it is anything but. So yes, I have been proving them wrong every single day since I installed it and will continue to.
I was hoping this thread would die as Speedy had suggested but for the poster to call us haters because we try to show him that what he has done is in violation of the manufacturer's written instructions and possibly local building codes, is going beyond civility. To disagree is fine but to call someone a hater
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:12 AM   #49
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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To disagree is fine but to call someone a hater
Quite so. I hate it when somebody calls me a hater.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:49 PM   #50
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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TPRV's don't exist for the typical case. They are safety devices for the atypical case. To state your water heater is working beautifully (in the typical case) seems to somehow want to equate operation in that mode to carry over to the atypical case. IT DOESN'T. Further if the device came with the valve and you removed it you can't even cite an economic reason for not installing it (as it came free with the unit).
Safety is achieved by layers of protection. You have chosen to remove a layer that has been proven over about 60-70 years in 100's of millions of installations. Literally billions of in service hours. I guess you know better.
Like most of the idiots posting here trying to sound smart, you are confused.

It did not come with a TPRV because the manufacturer states you do not need one and it is literally installed per manufacturer's recommendations in millions of businesses, National parks and homes all without A TPRV so to suggest that I removed a TPRV is plain incorrect and also deceptive on your part; in addition to just being an ignorant statement on the whole about TPRVs for point of use tankless water heaters. You obviously do not know much because point of use tankless heaters have billions of service hours all without a TPRV. No layers removed here. This is how it was manufactured. Please educate yourself before you talk.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:15 PM   #51
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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Not what I would call "out of the box" thinking, but the most common way to wire a 240 only device.
Then why didn't you think of it?? Instead you post worthless dribble that adds no value other than to launch incorrect attack after attack. In a sea of jumping to wrong conclusions and worthless unhelpful posts, it was only AllanJ who saw what I wanted to do and then straightforwardly explained the solution to it. From that point on I was golden.....while the worthless cackals still continued to cack and cack and cack even to this day.

Last edited by wonderworm; 12-20-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:45 PM   #52
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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...

It did not come with a TPRV because the manufacturer states you do not need one...
You keep omitting the rest of the manufacturer's statement:
unless required by code

What is the code where you live? All the links I've found with Google indicate that at least a PRV is required, even with a tankless WH.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:20 PM   #53
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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Originally Posted by wonderworm View Post
Then why didn't you think of it?? Instead you post worthless dribble that adds no value other than to launch incorrect attack after attack. In a sea of jumping to wrong conclusions and worthless unhelpful posts, it was only AllanJ who saw what I wanted to do and then straightforwardly explained the solution to it. From that point on I was golden.....while the worthless cackals still continued to cack and cack and cack even to this day.
And you call us haters?
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:30 PM   #54
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


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Old 12-20-2012, 04:58 PM   #55
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Is it OK to power a 220v tankless with only 120v?


Question asked, question answered. This thread seems to have become side tracked.

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