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Old 06-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #1
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Just doing a simple junction box, connecting old, existing wire to new wire in a kitchen renovation. The old wire has only got a black and a white wire, no ground, and I want to connect it to 12/2 romex NM which obviously has a black white and ground wire. I understand the black gets connected to black, and white to white, but what do i do with the ground wire? was i supposed to use a metal box and connect the ground wire to that? Probably a stupid question, but thanks in advance for all replies.

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Old 06-26-2011, 05:10 PM   #2
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Is the ground wire wrapped around the cable connector screw? If there is no EGC then you may have to run new circuits.

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Old 06-26-2011, 05:11 PM   #3
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


If this was an ungrounded circuit it should not have been extended. You might have a grounding means if the old method had a metallic covering and a bond strip.

Is there a thin aluminum looking strip inside the sheath along with the black and white conductors? Look to see if it is wrapped in the spirals of the old cable.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:15 PM   #4
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


There is no third wire or strip in the existing wires. Only the black and the white wires, which are pretty thick (thicker than the 12/2 romex I am using for new circuits). I am trying to post a photo, but that's not working. The whole house was wired with this 2 wire stuff.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:19 PM   #5
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


I installed an old work box in a closet because the previous condition was just an electrical tape connection above a ceiling (YIKES). I didn't plan on running a new romex cable from this box until tonight. Then I hit a snag.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:37 PM   #6
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


if you are rewiring a kitchen you need 2 seperate 20 amp circuits that are grounded.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:46 PM   #7
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Danny,

Thanks. Yep. Got all my code-required kitchen stuff covered, with new wiring from a new sub-panel. This one splice was to grab power to a switch for a new toe-kick heater. That was for convenience, to control the outlet the heater fan was plugged into, and let the wife hit the turbo heat whenever she wanted, without stooping down to hit the switch on the faceplate of the heater. I can go without this connection if necessary, but would prefer to make it if possible.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #8
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


That looks like old cloth covered NM cable. By code you can’t extend it. You could pull out the new romex and find another circuit (grounded) to feed it from and leave the old NM alone, put a blank cover on it. Or pull a new feed wire in to replace the old NM.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:17 PM   #9
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD515 View Post
That looks like old cloth covered NM cable. By code you canít extend it. You could pull out the new romex and find another circuit (grounded) to feed it from and leave the old NM alone, put a blank cover on it. Or pull a new feed wire in to replace the old NM.
Agreed. this circuit should not be extended.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:26 PM   #10
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Just throwing out a hypothetical here, because I don't have my code book handy and haven't run into this before: Could he install a blank face (or regular) GFCI in that box, and feed the load with that? I know this is permitted for receptacle outlets on existing ungrounded circuits, but I don't know if it's permitted for other types of loads.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:27 PM   #11
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Thanks SD515 and Jim. I had a feeling that's what you were going to say. I REALLY hate that cloth covered stuff, I might add. Arghhhh
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:16 AM   #12
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Just throwing out a hypothetical here, because I don't have my code book handy and haven't run into this before: Could he install a blank face (or regular) GFCI in that box, and feed the load with that? I know this is permitted for receptacle outlets on existing ungrounded circuits, but I don't know if it's permitted for other types of loads.
Good question...right off I don't think so, but maybe. Don't have my book handy at the moment either. Have to check that tonight.
I'm thinking part of 'yes or no' will depend on whether the instructions of what's being supplied calls for a ground specifically...like a ballast for a T8 fixture for example.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:32 PM   #13
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Question: Does the garbage disposal need to have a dedicated circuit, or can I tap into that circuit to power the switched outlet which will power the toekick heater fan? Right now, the outlets for both the dishwasher and garbage disposal are dedicated. I don't have a power source for the toekick heater handy unless I give it its own homerun ( seems like a waste) or I can tap that garbage disposal receptacle
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:13 PM   #14
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Mpoulton…didn’t find anything on using a GFI for a non-receptacle load (didn’t look long though) but did find 250.130(C) mentions that you can run an EGC back to the panel/accessible location for a branch circuit extension.

Sorry about that tpagel…forgot you can do that for circuit extensions, not just ungrounded receptacles. On the other hand, if I had to fish a single wire from the panel just to get a ground wire in a box, I’d just pull a new cable…not much more work.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:17 PM   #15
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OK. 1 extra wire. Now what?


Thanks, Kyle. I have myself pretty much talked into running a separate homerun to a new 4x4 junction box within the same closet, so that as I do more work in the adjacent room, I can pull out the old wire and re-wire from the new circuit. I appreciate the insight and research though! Luckily, the path to the main panel in the attic (yes, attic!) is still pretty open, and running a new wire is not that much of a problem.

Todd

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