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-   -   No power at live feed to bathroom wall heater. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/no-power-live-feed-bathroom-wall-heater-171852/)

barwen18 02-13-2013 01:28 PM

No power at live feed to bathroom wall heater.
 
Hi,
I am hoping you can help me with a problem I am having with my bathroom wall fan heater.
My bathroom wall fan heater was clogged with dust etc and as a result it tripped the mains circuit breaker as it was getting quite hot. After cleaning the fan I switched on the breaker at the main fuse box and all electrics came back on apart from the wall heater. I removed and replaced the small fuse which is situated on the heater switch but still no power. I removed the switch cover and put a test lamp to the live feed which is coming from the loft. It did not light up. I went back to the main fuse box (modern type) and all fuses are in the on position ? Every light, socket and other appliance in the house is working. So how is it that there is now no live feed only to the heater. I was an apprentice electrician for two years so I have a basic knowledge and I know I am checking the right cable etc. Please help.:(

TarheelTerp 02-13-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barwen18 (Post 1116559)
I removed the switch cover and put a test lamp to the live feed...
I went back to the main fuse box (modern type) and all fuses are in the on position?

Are they marked? Do you know WHICH circuit feeds the heater?
Once you are certain which... can you test the voltage past the breaker to see if the line is being given voltage to begin with?

AllanJ 02-13-2013 01:55 PM

Built in heaters are usually 240 volt and have two breakers or fuses in the main panel or fuse box. The fan may work if only one of the breakers is on but the heater needs both breakers to be on. Double check and turn each breaker off and then back on to reset it correctly.

There could be a loose connection in the wiring between the panel and the heater.

barwen18 02-13-2013 02:12 PM

Thanks to both of you who replied.
It does not have its own circuit breaker in main fuse box. Fuses marked are the usual cooker, immersion heater, seperate up and downstairs lights, and one for all sockets.

I have switched off and on all breakers and fuses but still no live feed from loft cable to heater. The heater was working this morning but had started to smell a bit so that is why I cleaned fan blades. When I pulled the cord to turn back on the whole house went down and like I said before the main RCB had tripped but funnily enough the other breakers on each side of the fuses were still in on position. Could there have been a break in the cable ? but no signs of burning apparent at the heater side.

rrolleston 02-13-2013 03:44 PM

I would be wondering where it got it's power if it only tripped the main and no other breaker tripped. Is there another panel somewhere in the attic or basement?

TarheelTerp 02-13-2013 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barwen18 (Post 1116571)
It does not have its own (marked) circuit breaker in main fuse box.
Could there have been a break in the cable?

It *could* be many things.

You have to determine what circuit is supposed to feed the appliance.
If it is a shared circuit... then what else is on it?

At that point it's on to the poking about.
Trace the line back to the last known good spot.

barwen18 02-13-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolleston (Post 1116617)
I would be wondering where it got it's power if it only tripped the main and no other breaker tripped. Is there another panel somewhere in the attic or basement?

Thanks but no definitely no other panel. I have just been up in the loft and traced the cable right back across to just above the mains where it disappears through the ceiling and straight into and behind the new type main fuse box.
It is really baffling. No other appliance is affected just this loss of feed through this one cable. I cannot see how it could have become loose at the mains end not simply after me working on the heater fan end. I have repeated knocking off and on all trip switches and still nothing.
This is a fairly recent fuse box (4 months) and is not like the older one I had where I could get to the back of it and rewire to a spare. Would it be safe for me to tap into the shower junction in the loft and rewire from there ?
I know the fan heater is ok as I have just attached an extension cable from a normal plug socket to the heater switch to check and it worked no problem.

Kyle_in_rure 02-13-2013 06:06 PM

Do you happen to be in the UK? The terms you use make me ask.

barwen18 02-13-2013 06:10 PM

Yes Uk ?

Kyle_in_rure 02-13-2013 07:44 PM

I doubt it would be legal to tap into the electric shower, if that's what you have.
From reading I've done those things usually have their own circuit.
Just wondering, can you tell if the live feed from your fuse box goes to the heater and THEN to the switch, or two the switch first and then the heater?

frenchelectrican 02-13-2013 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure (Post 1116736)
I doubt it would be legal to tap into the electric shower, if that's what you have.
From reading I've done those things usually have their own circuit.
Just wondering, can you tell if the live feed from your fuse box goes to the heater and THEN to the switch, or two the switch first and then the heater?

Kyle.,

I know the OP is from UK which that is correct due he did mention that.,

Now it is illegal to tap to the electrique shower heater that have to be it own circuit per UK Reg 17 edition.

Now to the OP.,

There is possiblty a hidden spice block behind the new fuse housing. A real legit UK sparky will know this is illegal to have hidden splice block behind that location.

Try to trace that cable if that change colour or possible a broken cable you will have to double check for burnt mark on the cable.

And be aware between red et black also brown et bleu conductors pay attetion to them.

Merci,
Marc

barwen18 02-14-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure (Post 1116736)
I doubt it would be legal to tap into the electric shower, if that's what you have.
From reading I've done those things usually have their own circuit.
Just wondering, can you tell if the live feed from your fuse box goes to the heater and THEN to the switch, or two the switch first and then the heater?

1
Thanks for your reply.
No, the live feed enters through the bathroom ceiling directly into the box which has a separate fuse at the front and also a flick down on off switch next to the fuse. Then a very short link cable from that box drops directly into the fan heater which has a pull down on off cord.
The dead feed is the actual cable running from the mains to the box above the heater.

Quote 2
There is possibilty a hidden spice block behind the new fuse housing. A real legit UK sparky will know this is illegal to have hidden splice block behind that location.

Regarding the hidden spice box. I have never heard of one and cannot look behind the new fuse housing as it is secured closely and tightly fitted within a very small housing but that sort of thing sounds possible as what else could stop the live feed as like mentioned all trip rcds etc are on and every aplliance, socket and light fitting are fine.

I will not tap into anything like advised so unless anyone can say for definite I suppose its going to be hand in pocket and get a sparkie in !

Kyle_in_rure 02-14-2013 06:53 PM

It will be interesting to see what the problem was.

barwen18 02-15-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle_in_rure (Post 1117341)
It will be interesting to see what the problem was.

Hi,

Well a very interesting thing happened this morning!
I was using the bathroom and considering what to do next to solve the problem regarding the dead live feed. For some reason I pulled on the cord and bingo the heater burst into life ? I immediately turned it off then on and off and it works. Now I can undersatnd if there was a thermal type cut out within the fan that had needed to cool down but as there was definitely no power coming from the live feed from the loft I am at a loss. Is there any chance that my new fuse box (4 months old) has some kind of individual thermal type circuit that would have now cooled. As stated before I was an apprentice electrician for a couple of years way back but I certainly was testing the live cable and not the heater side??? Any ideas on this one? :thumbsup::huh::)

frenchelectrican 02-15-2013 11:30 PM

Did you say that you pull the cord if so then you have loose connection at the power socket ( receptale or plug ) you will have to check it closer to make sure it is not loose or burnted if burnt you may want to cut off little peice of bad conductor off and refit with new power socket as the same size and type as the old one is.

Merci,
Marc


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