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Old 06-28-2012, 04:48 PM   #1
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


Hello,

I have a weird problem. I have a sub panel attached only to my outdoor spa.

Coming from the main breaker are 2 hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground.
2-pole 50-amp GFI breaker in the sub panel
Going to/coming from the spa are 2 hots and one ground

Inside the sub panel it was set up where the neutral pigtail from the GFI was wire nutted off by itself, and the neutral from the house was also wire nutted off by itself.

Both grounds are attached to what I believe is the ground bus (not sure if it's really the neutral bus/insulated versus not)



Q: Should I just replace the (old) sub panel with a new one, or can I just wire nut the pigtail neutral and the service neutral together? Is there a third way with installing a new bus?

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:00 PM   #2
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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Originally Posted by to3032 View Post
Hello,

I have a weird problem. I have a sub panel attached only to my outdoor spa.

Coming from the main breaker are 2 hots, 1 neutral, 1 ground.
2-pole 50-amp GFI breaker in the sub panel
Going to/coming from the spa are 2 hots and one ground

Inside the sub panel it was set up where the neutral pigtail from the GFI was wire nutted off by itself, and the neutral from the house was also wire nutted off by itself.

Both grounds are attached to what I believe is the ground bus (not sure if it's really the neutral bus/insulated versus not)



Q: Should I just replace the (old) sub panel with a new one, or can I just wire nut the pigtail neutral and the service neutral together? Is there a third way with installing a new bus?
The electronic parts inside the breaker run on 125 volts, the neutral is needed for that reason even if the load does not need it. I would just wire nut the two whites together.

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Old 06-29-2012, 01:38 PM   #3
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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The electronic parts inside the breaker run on 125 volts, the neutral is needed for that reason even if the load does not need it. I would just wire nut the two whites together.
Yeah, the GFI doesn't work if the neutral isn't connected. So it's ok to just wire nut the two neutrals together instead of having to install a new bus bar?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:15 PM   #4
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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Yeah, the GFI doesn't work if the neutral isn't connected. So it's ok to just wire nut the two neutrals together instead of having to install a new bus bar?
Yes...
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:25 PM   #5
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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Yes...
Tried it - test button still doesn't work.

I'm reasonably certain that the GFI breaker itself is functioning since everything is brand new
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #6
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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Tried it - test button still doesn't work.

I'm reasonably certain that the GFI breaker itself is functioning since everything is brand new
Is the neutral conductor connected in the main panel?
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:40 AM   #7
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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Is the neutral conductor connected in the main panel?
Yes, it is. Both the neutral and ground wires are connected to the neutral bus in the main panel (which is then bonded to the ground bus)
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:14 AM   #8
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


Take a picture of the disconnect is about all I have left to suggest. Or change out the breaker and see if the results change.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:22 AM   #9
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


What alerted you to this issue? Did you install it and the tub won't work? Were you just testing the breaker and can't manually trip the GFI breaker? Is the tub working properly?
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #10
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!


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What alerted you to this issue? Did you install it and the tub won't work? Were you just testing the breaker and can't manually trip the GFI breaker? Is the tub working properly?
The former - I can't get the GFI to trip, so I'm worried about safety issues. The Spa works just fine, though - the breaker sends power, doesn't trip (obviously), etc.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #11
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No neutral bus bar in 220v sub panel!




http://imgur.com/jYl25

Here is a diagram of the wiring setup


Last edited by to3032; 07-04-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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